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掰直(几行土)

Posted: 2005-08-17 5:30
by tautou
上周三独立报有个特写很有意思,题目开门见山就叫Going Straight,说的是一弯男想重回直人队伍的故事。该弯男是BBC记者,工作体面长的挺帅还有很反西的泰晤士河岸公寓,话说该弯男在弯人圈里摸爬滚打多年之后一朝醒来发现时间不饶人,同龄直人早已成家膝下儿女成双,而自己膝下只有球鞋球袜而已 :f22: 于是开始向往起正常家庭生活(ie,老婆孩子热炕头),决定把自己的弯人性向掰直重新回到直人队伍。记者问他领养小孩也可以享受养儿怡女之乐何苦要酱紫为难自己,弯男说了从小生活在这种性别混乱的环境里对小孩不公平自己渴望的家庭生活不仅要有小孩还包括了小孩他妈――他希望可以爱上的女人等等。于是,弯男就开始路漫漫的掰直之旅啦。
(to be)

Posted: 2005-08-17 6:05
by Knowing
tautou 对弯直问题的热情真是令人敬佩!有个相关的节目就逃不过你的法眼。

Posted: 2005-08-17 6:38
by tautou
knowing,我这还不是搭小e同志言情的顺风车嘛 :whistling:

Posted: 2005-08-17 10:38
by tiffany
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 这个有可能么?

Posted: 2005-08-17 11:16
by 洛洛
我觉得不可能吧,反叛的生活多有乐趣哪。谁要做一个苦闷平凡的中产阶级,他也不过是扒着人家窗户看着好而已。

Posted: 2005-08-17 11:49
by Elysees
2号你简直是坏我饭碗 :x :x

Posted: 2005-08-17 15:41
by Jun

washingtonpost.com
Vowing to Set the World Straight
Proponents of Reparative Therapy Say They Can Help Gay Patients Become Heterosexual. Experts Call That a Prescription for Harm

By Sandra G. Boodman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 16, 2005; HE01



Nicholas Cavnar said he tried everything he could think of in his 30-year quest to become heterosexual. He spent years in therapy, paying thousands of dollars for treatment designed to overcome his homosexuality. He faithfully attended meetings of Christian self-help groups for "strugglers." He married and fathered three children, a metamorphosis featured on the cover of a Catholic magazine.

Yet every day, the 54-year-old Washington publishing executive recalled, he had to suppress his deepest feelings about who he really was -- emotions he thought he had left behind at 20 when, to the delight of his devout family, he abruptly renounced his openly gay life in San Francisco.

Three years ago, Cavnar said, after soul-searching prompted by the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, he decided his days of "white-knuckling it" were over. "I told my wife I couldn't not be gay anymore," recalled Cavnar. His biggest regret, he said, was the devastating impact ending their 26-year marriage had on the woman who had struggled with him.

Cavnar's odyssey -- from gay to ex-gay to ex-ex-gay -- is inextricably linked to his long involvement in reparative therapy, a controversial form of psychotherapy aimed at making gays straight.

While its supporters cite success stories from their clinical practices as well as a recent and much debated study showing that conversion therapy can work, the treatment is opposed by virtually every medical and mental health organization, including the American Medical Association, the U.S. Surgeon General and the American Psychiatric Association (APA), which removed homosexuality from its list of mental disorders in 1973.

Until the early 1990s the treatment, also known as reorientation therapy, was largely relegated to religious groups or to the fringes of mental health. Mainstream therapists have been taught to help patients distressed about their homosexuality work toward self-acceptance, to overcome the internalized homophobia thought to be the cause of much emotional turmoil.

Reparative therapists reject the views held by an overwhelming majority of mental health practitioners. They regard homosexuality as a pathological preference forged in the crucible of a troubled childhood and not, as most scientists believe, an inborn orientation significantly influenced by biological factors such as genetics and exposure to hormones in the womb.

"I don't think sexual orientation is genetically determined, but like a lot of preferences we have in life is a complicated and idiosyncratic mix of temperament and experience," said Warren Throckmorton, a supporter of reparative therapy who is an associate professor of psychology at Grove City College in Pennsylvania and former president of the American Mental Health Counselors Association. "The other reason I think change is possible is that I've worked with a lot of clients who've done it."

In the past decade, the growing influence of religious conservatives and the national debate over gay rights, especially gay marriage, has revived interest in the therapy, significantly raising its public profile, spawning new practitioners and igniting debate about a matter that had been considered settled, supporters and critics agree.

"Reparative therapy is the laetrile of mental health," said New York psychiatrist Jack Drescher, referring to the quack cancer cure banned in the United States in the 1970s.

To gay rights activist Wayne R. Besen, the author of "Anything But Straight," a 2003 book that tracks the history of ex-gay groups, the therapy is "a kinder, gentler form of homophobia. The argument has shifted from 'You're harming society' to 'You're harming yourselves.' "

The Campaign

Web sites with names like "inqueery" and "freetobeme" have sprung up, directing confused teenagers and frantic parents to reparative counselors. Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX), a national group headquartered in Fairfax County, has sponsored highway billboards in Rockville and Richmond that state "Ex-Gays Prove That Change Is Possible."

PFOX, founded seven years ago to counter PFLAG -- Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays -- was active in the recent battle over sex education in Montgomery County. Central to the dispute was the way homosexuality would be taught.

As a result of a lawsuit, PFOX has won a seat on the board that will help rewrite the health curriculum, and its officials say they plan to push for inclusion of reparative therapy.

Reparative therapists have their own organization, the 1,000-member California-based National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), founded in 1992. Its leaders often appear at "Love Won Out" workshops that draw more than 1,000 participants and are sponsored by Focus on the Family, a group founded by conservative psychologist James Dobson, a staunch opponent of gay rights who has ties to the Bush administration.

Mental health experts are alarmed by the resurgence of a treatment they say has been discredited.

In the view of Drescher, chair of the APA's committee on gay, lesbian and bisexual issues, reparative therapy's ascendance resembles the resurrection of creationism, a religious belief at odds with science that has been rechristened with the more scientific-sounding name "intelligent design."

"Many people who try this treatment tend to be desperate, very unhappy and don't know other gay people," said Drescher, who has treated about a dozen men who previously underwent conversion therapy. (Men are far more likely than women to receive the treatment.)

"I see people who've been very hurt by this," said Drescher, who said some people do manage to temporarily change their behavior, often by becoming celibate, but not their sexual orientation. "They spend years trying to change and are told they aren't trying hard enough."

Catherine Wulfensmith, 46, a family therapist in Monrovia, Calif., said she attempted suicide several times after reparative therapy failed to alter her attraction to women. "I bought it hook, line and sinker," she said. "If you don't change, what are you left with?"

The 'Fix'

Reparative therapy typically involves once- or twice-weekly psychotherapy sessions lasting a minimum of two years; it may be covered by insurance if it is listed as being for a "sexual disorder not otherwise specified." Patients are encouraged to delve into their childhood relationships, especially with the same-sex parent; to cultivate straight friends and "gender-appropriate" activities such as sports or sewing; and to avoid anything, or anyone, gay. Prayer is often recommended.

NARTH co-founder Joseph Nicolosi, a clinical psychologist in Encino, Calif., who coined the term reparative therapy and is one of its leading practitioners, emphatically rejects the view that it is ineffective and potentially damaging. He points to a study published in 2003 by Columbia University psychiatrist Robert L. Spitzer which found that therapy seemed to work for some highly motivated patients.

"It can only be damaging if the agenda of the therapist supersedes that of the patient," said Nicolosi, who added that it should never be forced on unwilling participants.

Although no rigorous outcome studies have been published, Nicolosi estimates that one-third of patients treated at the Thomas Aquinas Psychological Clinic, of which he is founding director, experience "significant improvement -- they understand their homosexuality and have some sense of control" but may still have gay sex. Another third, he said, are "cured": They don't have gay sex and the intensity and frequency of their same-sex desires is diminished, but not necessarily gone. The other third fail to change.

Hector Roybal, a 52-year-old financial consultant in Los Angeles, spent four years in intensive treatment with Nicolosi, who considers him to be cured. Roybal concurs, but said he still sometimes struggles with sexual feelings for men, although he has remained faithful to his wife, the only woman to whom he says he feels physically attracted.

"I saw myself as someone who had a problem with homosexuality but was meant to be straight," said Roybal, who, like Nicolosi, is a conservative Catholic. "This is about making a choice."

Although reparative therapists sometimes differ about the causes of homosexuality, they are united in saying it is not inborn and it is never normal.

Nicolosi maintains it is the result of a defective bond with the same-sex parent. Boys who feel rejected by their fathers develop a "defensive detachment" -- they reject them and identify with their mothers and other females. Because opposites attract, he theorizes, they are sexually drawn to men, even though what they are searching for is their lost masculinity. Once they find it, he said, their attraction to women will follow, although lifetime vigilance is required to avoid slipping.

Even though reparative therapists say they support "free choice," they see nothing contradictory in their view that homosexuality is pathological. Nor do they regard as incongruent their refusal to work with a straight or bisexual client who thinks he or she might be gay. In their view, homosexuals are doomed to miserable, unhealthy lives.

"We say to patients, 'Your true self is heterosexual,' " Nicolosi said. He said he tells male patients, "Look at your body: It was designed to fit a woman, not a man."

The Study

Robert Spitzer sounds weary when discussing the study published two years ago in the Archives of Sexual Behavior that earned him the enmity of many of his colleagues and the admiration of reparative therapists.

Spitzer's study has special resonance: In 1973 he was the driving force behind the removal of homosexuality from psychiatry's diagnostic manual.

Thirty years later, he said, he decided to test the widespread hypothesis that reparative therapy never worked. "I like to challenge conventional notions," he explained.

Despite the active cooperation of NARTH and ex-gay religious groups, Spitzer said it took him more than 16 months to recruit 200 people who had undergone treatment. He conducted 45-minute telephone interviews and found that 66 percent of 143 men and 44 percent of 57 women, all of whom Spitzer described as "highly motivated" and almost all of whom were "extraordinarily religious," had achieved "good heterosexual function" lasting at least five years. They were in a committed relationship, had satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and said they were rarely or never bothered by homosexual feelings.

In an accompanying commentary, former APA president Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer's study "too flawed to publish." Hartmann noted the study was retrospective, that it lacked controls or independent measurements, and was based entirely on self-reports by people who were motivated to say they had changed because of their affiliation with ex-gay or anti-gay groups.

While Nicolosi and others frequently cite the study as proof reparative therapy works, Spitzer said his results have been misrepresented. "It bothers me to be their knight in shining armor because on every social issue I totally disagree with the Christian right," he said.

"What they don't mention is that change is pretty rare," he added, noting that the subjects of his study were not representative of the general population because they were considerably more religious.

And Spitzer calls "totally absurd" the twin hypotheses that everyone is born straight and that homosexuality is a choice.

Drescher agrees. "There are probably a small number of people with some flexibility in their sexual identity who can change," he said. "Out of the hundreds of gay men I've treated, I've had one." ・

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Posted: 2005-08-17 16:04
by Knowing
想起个八卦。前几个礼拜的时候,Anderson Cooper 又貌似公允的找科学教的笑话儿看,弄了俩前科学教徒上节目控诉。他问男的那个:你为什么信他们?那人说:我当年发现自己是弯的,科学教保证可以把我掰直,我就信他们了。他们就是个邪教,要你捐很多钱。我历年被他们弄走半个米林 。然后Anderson Cooper 不接他的喳,打断了说:信这个教比较有名的有尊去付塔和汤姆可鹿死,他们以前都很低调,为什么现在汤姆可鹿死突然高调呢了?那人说,按教条应该低调,但是汤姆可鹿死刚升了级,升到甚么C -1 ,这个级别已经很高了,按教条到这么高除了捐钱还得做宣传,所以他最近这么公开。
我想Anderson Cooper 故意提尊去付塔和汤姆可鹿死这两个好莱坞最大的柜中人,不明摆着要暗示科学教许诺掰直是他们信奉的动机么。
这个前教徒也不是个好东西。他告科学教要赔偿,列举了很多乱七八糟的事儿,其中有尊去付塔受教头委派'影响克林顿的外交政策云云,胡扯。

Posted: 2005-08-17 16:22
by silkworm
屈服他还有这等秘密呐?那么貌美如花的老婆白搁着观赏,浪费。

Anderson Cooper找人来谈弯直问题,他可真敢刀尖上跳舞。

有关他和他节目的一些8卦,我老惦记着攒一块儿写,又犯懒,今儿说了痛快了:

上次他过生日,部署们给他剪了一个庆生的短片子,我8卦地看到,所有跳舞片段,都根本没有美女,全是海军服俊男。片子播完,直播间里有人窜出来对着他扔彩虹花纸条。

有次节目,是请社会学家通过观察居室布置推测人的个性。测了三个大学生后,摄制组去了他在纽约的公寓。我摩拳擦掌地想看卧室,结果只跟看了客厅,contemporary风格的,青色玻璃台面的餐桌,深褐色椅子……测试结果为强迫性完美主义者blah blah blah。找同事们印证,说很符合。他就笑着指着摄像师说:You're fired。

Posted: 2005-08-17 16:29
by Elysees
那两人真是柜中人? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Posted: 2005-08-17 16:41
by Knowing
是啊,你不用等汤帅哥,还是凑和着把贵妃给升了皇后吧,外面像样一点的秀女都是弯的,怕也白怕,东宫空着也是空着。 :mrgreen:

Posted: 2005-08-17 17:34
by tautou
Knowing wrote:是啊,你不用等汤帅哥,还是凑和着把贵妃给升了皇后吧,外面像样一点的秀女都是弯的,怕也白怕,东宫空着也是空着。 :mrgreen:
大学女生,你饭汤告斯吗 :? 俺上次还看见他和他小女朋友在世界大战的首映呢,俺前脚一走,他后脚就被人泼水啦 :lol:

Posted: 2005-08-17 21:05
by 小涵
Knowing wrote:是啊,你不用等汤帅哥,还是凑和着把贵妃给升了皇后吧,外面像样一点的秀女都是弯的,怕也白怕,东宫空着也是空着。 :mrgreen:
:laughting015:

Posted: 2005-08-18 0:52
by Elysees
tautou wrote:
Knowing wrote:是啊,你不用等汤帅哥,还是凑和着把贵妃给升了皇后吧,外面像样一点的秀女都是弯的,怕也白怕,东宫空着也是空着。 :mrgreen:
大学女生,你饭汤告斯吗 :? 俺上次还看见他和他小女朋友在世界大战的首映呢,俺前脚一走,他后脚就被人泼水啦 :lol:
我不饭他啊,那人太矮~我只是奇怪他居然是柜中人,这怎么得出来的结论?

Posted: 2005-08-18 5:56
by Jun
天哪小E,你的八卦太不灵了(还是这些八卦都是上一代的了?)。阿汤哥的过去恋爱过的女人都说他对(跟她们的)肉体关系没兴趣。

Posted: 2005-08-18 8:14
by silkworm
小E这半年太忙了,估计连矮子汤发神经的系列表演也没看到? :party004:

Posted: 2005-08-18 8:21
by Knowing
Jun wrote:天哪小E,你的八卦太不灵了(还是这些八卦都是上一代的了?)。阿汤哥的过去恋爱过的女人都说他对(跟她们的)肉体关系没兴趣。
他那叫恋爱嘛?那叫套老婆!他完全是以结婚为目的的,找个肯牺牲的就逮住拖去注册了。跟他约会没结婚只有潘洛普,还是一长期关系。

Posted: 2005-08-18 8:22
by Jun
Funny how all the public display of affection has suddenly died after WotW and BR movies have come and gone...

Perhaps they've already split up.

Posted: 2005-08-18 8:34
by tiffany
good for the girl!

Posted: 2005-08-18 8:49
by karen
Which one is "尊去付塔"? :huh:

Posted: 2005-08-18 8:59
by tiffany
John Trovota? you know the guy in grease and the famos pulp fiction

Posted: 2005-08-18 9:07
by karen
Oh, John Travolta is also gay??? I didn't know that. :huh:
Well, come to think of it, I thought he was a little gay in Saturday night fever. He dances too well for a straight guy.

Posted: 2005-08-18 12:05
by Elysees
silkworm wrote:小E这半年太忙了,估计连矮子汤发神经的系列表演也没看到? :party004:
确实没看到,不过八卦新闻真是看得不少~~~小汤倘或真是柜中人,他的那个伴侣是谁涅~光听他一次又一次结婚恋爱,可从没听说过有柜中伴侣阿 :roll: 总不能因为人性冷感就说人不喜欢女人吧

Posted: 2005-08-18 12:50
by Jun
Uh... I don't think just because a person is gay he HAS TO have a regular (or many irregular) sexual partner at any given time. Plenty of heterosexual people do not have a regular sexual partner. Besides, scientology claims to CURE homosexuality. I'm sure he is cured of sexual desire altogether.

Posted: 2005-08-18 12:52
by Elysees
啊啊,莫不是这科学教做高了其实还得做阉人? :shock:

Posted: 2005-08-18 12:56
by silkworm
葵花宝典? :super:

转一搞笑8卦:
http://bbs.jjwxc.net/showmsg.php?board=135&id=87

全真八卦

  以前看《笑傲江湖》时总觉得关于东方不败的情节写得太邪乎,哪有一种功会像葵花宝典那么咸湿,一练之下会有欲火焚身的效果,逼得人必先自宫才能练成,而恰恰又有那么多人敢于横下一条心,不要老婆面子与胡子,为追求武功艺术新境界而献身自残。最近在一史学论坛看了场关于全真教系列八卦的讨论才发现,原来还是我书读少了,金庸先生这样写其实是有史实依据的,史上确实有道家武学高手为修炼内功挥刀自宫,且这人大大有名,经金大侠一写更是家喻户晓―――全真七子中的长春真人丘处机。

  据说丘道长是在其师王重阳死后五六年之内自宫的,因在练一种高深内功时颇受欲念干扰,于是毅然作此决定,其后大病一场,险些丧命,好在最后神功练成,目的总算是达到了。东方不败做这外科手术后从此不敢见人,岳不群和林平之也都在人前尽力遮掩,而人家丘道长行事光明磊落,并不向教中人隐瞒此事,一干弟子也坦然接受,尹志平的《清和尹真人语录》早期版本对此就毫不讳言,后来的徒孙邱元清更是接过祖师衣钵,依样自宫以绝欲念。大概到那时,自宫在全真教已隐约成了种传统,只是到后世,这些真人自宫的事被太监们知道后欣喜若狂,纷纷赶来烧香捧场将他们奉为祖师,全真教道长们觉得有失颜面,才谢绝一切炒作,并把邱元清自宫那日(正月十九日)所定的“阉九节”改为“燕九节”,这事才渐渐被人淡忘忽略,丘处机做过手术的事也只在他在北京白云观老律堂中的塑像和流传下来的一些画像中才可看出点端倪―――上面的长春真人都面白而无须。

  当然全真教中不是每个人都能像丘道长这样以如此决绝的方式表达不近女色的决心。甚至采战还是道家修炼的一种重要方法,据说全真教主张禁欲修炼,去掉了阴阳双修,采阴补阳等内容,但通过一些野史传奇分析,全真教创始之初,王重阳的某些做法很是可疑。例如按写王重阳与全真七子秘史的《金莲仙史》上的说法,王重阳竟然是以性骚扰的方式来探试孙不二的道心:“重阳见孙氏执迷不省,就出了阳神,来到孙氏房中,将孙氏抱住……”还几次三番,最后逼得孙不二以烧热的灯油烫面毁容王重阳才罢手,(假惺惺地)道:“汝既有这般志向,哪怕大道不成?真是世间罕有!这样的刚志,可称女中之丈夫也。我将汝取名不二,更壮汝志。”

  这些全真八卦之事上网后引起网友惊诧,有位勤勉好学的网友在国学网站虚心请教:“自宫求道是不是符合道家、道教的思想和教义呢?”有高人答:“符合。道家修炼就俩办法,一采战,二自宫,建议你选用后者,公安局不管。”

  现代的体坛明星也有人明里暗里采用这俩办法修炼。前者的忠实信徒无疑是巴西球星和NBA球星,从加林查到小罗纳尔多,从张伯伦到科比,无人不是采花妙手,有人公然宣称性爱可使他在球场上如有神助,有人不太耿直,只暗度陈仓,可往往有媒体爆出替他说明。近期英超球星频频闹这方面事,好几次都快整进了局子里,但球坛色风不减,还有愈演愈烈之势,仿佛采战无罪,禁欲无理,教练们赛前禁欲的命令往往被他们不屑地抛到脑后。

  相比起来,自宫修炼的高手就人数极少,相当寂寞,毕竟现代男人很少有人心理能达到丘道长那样的境界,唯一被我们所知的阿姆斯特朗也是在患了睾丸癌的情况下不得已才接受了类似的手术。不过此后他连续五年环法大赛夺冠的经历实在令人惊叹。今年环法开赛前曾有同事建议《竞赛画报》将关于他的专题名定为“欲练神功,挥刀自宫”,心理比较阴暗的还猜他大概不能如愿卫冕,那赛后的专题标题也有了:“若已自宫,未必成功”。因做专题的编辑对身残志坚的他抱有无上的敬意,所以断然否决了这不礼貌的标题。其实我本来也非常尊重他,可惜他五连冠后为了桑德拉・布洛克抛弃与他同甘共苦多年的妻子,让我对他有了点小意见,这才决定把他写进专栏。
☆☆☆米兰Lady于2003-12-16 01:15:55

蚕的声明:我手腕上套着明黄橡皮圈,对文章最后一段有了点小意见,嗬嗬。

Posted: 2005-08-18 17:51
by wuliaotou
阿默斯特朗现在应该和谢拉克罗在一起吧

Posted: 2005-08-18 19:16
by silkworm
嗯哪。
而且他不但在切除一侧加放疗化疗之前冷冻了精子,生了三个孩子(一个老大,两个双胞胎---这双胞胎肯定是in vitro fertilization),而且现在也还是有功能的,如果他给花花公子杂志的访谈里言之凿凿不是放烟幕弹的话。

Posted: 2005-09-07 18:49
by wuliaotou
把这个T上来,问一下,只如初见都结束了,这个弯人还没有被伪扳直啊