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[分享]NYTimes: Middle-aged Men Without Work

Posted: 2006-07-31 10:55
by Jun
This article is long, but I find it fascinating especially in light of our recent discussion about 2nd careers and job stress in general.


July 31, 2006
Men Not Working, and Not Wanting Just Any Job
By LOUIS UCHITELLE and DAVID LEONHARDT

ROCK FALLS, Ill. ― Alan Beggerow has stopped looking for work. Laid off as a steelworker at 48, he taught math for a while at a community college. But when that ended, he could not find a job that, in his view, was neither demeaning nor underpaid.

So instead of heading to work, Mr. Beggerow, now 53, fills his days with diversions: playing the piano, reading histories and biographies, writing unpublished Western potboilers in the Louis L’Amour style ― all activities once relegated to spare time. He often stays up late and sleeps until 11 a.m.

“I have come to realize that my free time is worth a lot to me,” he said. To make ends meet, he has tapped the equity in his home through a $30,000 second mortgage, and he is drawing down the family’s savings, at the rate of $7,500 a year. About $60,000 is left. His wife’s income helps them scrape by. “If things really get tight,” Mr. Beggerow said, “I might have to take a low-wage job, but I don’t want to do that.”

Millions of men like Mr. Beggerow ― men in the prime of their lives, between 30 and 55 ― have dropped out of regular work. They are turning down jobs they think beneath them or are unable to find work for which they are qualified, even as an expanding economy offers opportunities to work.

About 13 percent of American men in this age group are not working, up from 5 percent in the late 1960’s. The difference represents 4 million men who would be working today if the employment rate had remained where it was in the 1950’s and 60’s.

Most of these missing men are, like Mr. Beggerow, former blue-collar workers with no more than a high school education. But their ranks are growing at all education and income levels. Refugees of failed Internet businesses have spent years out of work during their 30’s, while former managers in their late 40’s are trying to stretch severance packages and savings all the way to retirement.

Accumulated savings can make dropping out more affordable at the upper end than it is for Mr. Beggerow, but the dynamic is often the same ― the loss of a career and of a sense that one’s work is valued.

“These are men forced to compete to get back into the work force, and even then they cannot easily reconstruct what many lost in a former job,” said Thomas A. Kochan, a labor and management expert at the Sloan School of Management at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “So they stop trying.”

Many of these men could find work if they had to, but with lower pay and fewer benefits than they once earned, and they have decided they prefer the alternative. It is a significant cultural shift from three decades ago, when men almost invariably went back into the work force after losing a job and were more often able to find a new one that met their needs.

“To be honest, I’m kind of looking for the home run,” said Christopher Priga, who is 54 and has not had steady work since he lost a job with a six-figure income as an electrical engineer at Xerox in 2002. “There’s no point in hitting for base hits,” he explained. “I’ve been down the road where I did all the things I was supposed to do, and the end result of that is nil.”

Instead, Mr. Priga supports himself by borrowing against the rising value of his Los Angeles home. Other men fall back on wives or family members.

But the fastest growing source of help is a patchwork system of government support, the main one being federal disability insurance, which is financed by Social Security payroll taxes. The disability stipends range up to $1,000 a month and, after the first two years, Medicare kicks in, giving access to health insurance that for many missing men no longer comes with the low-wage jobs available to them.

No federal entitlement program is growing as quickly, with more than 6.5 million men and women now receiving monthly disability payments, up from 3 million in 1990. About 25 percent of the missing men are collecting this insurance.

The ailments that qualify them are usually real, like back pain, heart trouble or mental illness. But in some cases, the illnesses are not so serious that they would prevent people from working if a well-paying job with benefits were an option.

The disability program, in turn, is an obstacle to working again. Taking a job holds the risk of demonstrating that one can earn a living and is thus no longer entitled to the monthly payments. But staying out of work has consequences. Skills deteriorate, along with the desire for a paying job and the habits that it requires.

“The longer you stay on disability benefits,” said Martin H. Gerry, deputy commissioner for disability and income security at the Social Security Administration, “the longer you’re out of the work force, the less likely you are to go back to work.”

As a rule, out-of-work men are less educated than the population as a whole. Their numbers have grown sharply among black men and men who live in hard-hit industrial areas like Michigan, West Virginia and upstate New York, as well as those who live in rural states like Mississippi and Oklahoma.

The missing men are also more likely to live alone. Nearly 60 percent are divorced, separated, widowed or never married, up from 50 percent a decade earlier, the Census Bureau reports. Sometimes women who are working throw out men who are not, says Kathryn Edin, a sociologist at the University of Pennsylvania. In any case, without a household to support, there is less pressure to work, and for men who fall behind on support payments, an incentive exists to work off the books ― hiding employment ― so that wages cannot be garnisheed.

“What happens to a lot of guys who become unmoored from family life, they become unmoored from everything,” Ms. Edin said. “They are just living without attachments and by the time they are 40 or 50 years old, the things that kept these men from falling away ― family and community life ― are gone.”

Even as more men are dropping out of the work force, more women are entering it. This change has occurred partly because employment has shrunk in industries where men predominated, like manufacturing, while fields where women are far more common, like teaching, health care and retailing, have grown. Today, about 73 percent of women between 30 and 54 have a job, compared with 45 percent in the mid-1960’s, according to an analysis of Census data by researchers at Queens College. Many women without jobs are raising children at home, while men who are out of a job tend to be doing neither family work nor paid work.

Women are also making inroads in fields where they were once excluded ― as lawyers and doctors, for example, and on Wall Street. Men still make significantly more money than women, but as women become more educated than men, even more men may end up out of the work force.

At the low end of the spectrum, men emerging from prison with felony records are not easily absorbed into steady employment. Hundreds of thousands of young men were jailed in the 1980’s and 1990’s, in a surge of convictions for drug-related crimes. As prisoners, they were not counted in the employment data; as ex-prisoners they are. They are now being freed in their 30’s and 40’s and are struggling to be hired. Roughly two million men in this group have prison records, according to a calculation by Richard Freeman and Harry J. Holzer, labor economists at Harvard and the Urban Institute, respectively.Many of these men do not find work because of their records.

Despite their great numbers, many of the men not working are missing from the nation’s best-known statistic on unemployment. The jobless rate is now a low 4.6 percent, yet that number excludes most of the missing men, because they have stopped looking for work and are therefore not considered officially unemployed. That makes the unemployment rate a far less useful measure of the country’s well-being than it once was.

Indeed, a larger share of working-age men are not working today than at almost any point in the last half-century, which raises the question of how they will get by as they age. They may be forced back to work after years of absence, they may fall into poverty, or they may be rescued by the government. This same trend is evident in other industrialized countries. In the European Union, 14 percent of men between 25 and 54 were not working last year, up from 7 percent in 1975, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Over the same period in Japan, the proportion of such men rose to 8 percent from 4 percent.

In these countries, too, decently paying blue-collar jobs are disappearing, and as they do men who held them fall back on government benefits for income. But the growth of subsidies through federal and state programs like disability insurance has happened largely without notice in this country while it is a major topic of political debate in Europe.

“We have a de facto welfare system as Europe does,” said Teresa Ghilarducci, a labor economist at the University of Notre Dame. “But we are not proud of it, as they are.”

Reading, Sleeping, Scraping By

Alan Beggerow has not worked regularly in the five years since the steel mill that employed him for three decades closed. He and his wife, Cathleen, 47, cannot really afford to live without his paycheck. Yet with her sometimes reluctant blessing, Mr. Beggerow persists in constructing a way of life that he finds as satisfying as the work he did only in the last three years of his 30-year career at the mill. The trappings of this new life surround Mr. Beggerow in the cluttered living room of his one-story bungalow-style home in this half-rural, half-industrial prairie town west of Chicago. A bookcase covers an entire wall, and the books that Mr. Beggerow is reading are stacked on a glass coffee table in front of a comfortable sofa where he reads late into the night ― consuming two or three books a week ― many more than in his working years.

He also gets more sleep, regularly more than nine hours, a characteristic of men without work. As the months pass, they average almost nine-and-a-half hours a night, about 80 minutes more than working men, according to an analysis of time-use surveys by Harley Frazis and Jay Stewart, economists at the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Very few of the books Mr. Beggerow reads are novels, and certainly not the escapist Westerns that he himself writes (two in the last five years), his hope being that someday he will interest a publisher and earn some money. His own catholic tastes range over history ― currently the Bolshevik revolution and a biography of Charlemagne ― as well as music and the origins of Christianity.

He often has strong views about what he has just read, which he expresses in reviews that he posts on Amazon.com: 124 so far, he said.

Always on the coffee table is a thick reference work, “Guide to the Pianist’s Repertoire” by Maurice Hinson. Mr. Beggerow is a serious pianist now that he has the time to practice, sometimes two or three hours at a stretch. He does so on an old upright in a corner of the living room, a piano he purchased as a young steelworker, when he first took lessons.

His new life began in the spring of 2001 with the closing of Northwestern Wire and Steel in Sterling, Ill., where he had worked since 1971. During the last three of those 30 years, Mr. Beggerow found himself assigned to work he really liked: as a union representative on union-management teams that assessed every aspect of the plant’s operations.

What made him valuable was his dexterity as a writer. No one could put together committee reports as articulately as he did, and he found himself on nearly every team. His salary rose to $50,000. During those years, he taught himself more math, too, to help in the analyses of the issues that the teams tackled: productivity, safety, plant layout and the like.

“I actually loved that job,” he said. “I even looked forward to going to work. The more teams they had, the more they found out what I could do and the more I found out what I could do.”

Mr. Beggerow would take another job in a heartbeat, he says, if it were like the work he did in those last three years at Northwestern. The closest he has gotten has been as an instructor at a community college, teaching plant maintenance and other useful factory skills. His students were from nearby manufacturing companies, which subsidized the courses, including his pay of $45 an hour. But factory operations in the area are shrinking, and Mr. Beggerow has not had a teaching stint since November.

Like Mr. Beggerow, the great majority of the missing men are out of the work force for months or years at a time rather than drifting in and out of jobs. There appears to have been no rise since the 1960’s in the percentage of men out of work for short periods, according to research by Chinhui Juhn, a University of Houston professor, and other economists.

Mr. Beggerow will not take a lesser job, he says, because of his bitter memories of earlier years at Northwestern Wire, particularly the 1980’s, when the industry was in turmoil. A powerful man, over 6 feet and 200 pounds, he worked then as a warehouseman.

What got to him was not the work. It was the frequent furloughs, the uncertainty whether he would be recalled, the mandatory overtime and 50-hour weeks often imposed when he did return, the schedules that forced him to work every holiday except Christmas, and then, as rising seniority finally gave him some protection, a six-month strike in 1983 followed by a wage cut. His pay shrank to $13 an hour from $17, a loss he did not fully recover until those last three years.

“I was always thinking if there was some way I could get out of this, do something else,” Mr. Beggerow said. “What made me so upset was the insecurity of it all and the humiliation. I don’t want to take a job that would put me through that again.”

Shortly after Northwestern closed, Mr. Beggerow married. It was his third marriage, and also Cathleen’s third. He has one adult child by the first wife; Cathleen has no children. For six months they lived on his $12,000 from a shrunken pension and her $28,000 as a factory worker ― until severe injuries in an auto accident five months after their wedding forced her out of that job. She eventually qualified for $12,000 a year in disability insurance.

Their two incomes are not enough to cover expenses, which bothers Mrs. Beggerow, although not enough to badger her husband to take a job, any job. She respects him too much for that, she says.

Instead, she finds ways to make money herself, in activities she enjoys. She is taking in work as a seamstress, baking pastries for parties and selling merchandise for others on eBay, collecting a fee. Still, she says, she hopes to land a part-time clerical job. “The comfort of a paycheck every week would take a load off my mind,” she said.

While she is tolerant of her husband’s reluctance to work, respecting his current pursuits, she is not above looking for a job he would consider suitable. “I look at the employment ads every day,’’ she said, “and every so often I find one that I think might be right up his alley.”

Less Concern About the Future

Recently there was an opening for an editor-writer at a small travel magazine published in a nearby town. “I applied,” Mr. Beggerow said, “but the publisher did not seem to want someone my age.”

Meanwhile the Beggerows’ savings are shrinking. This year, for the first time, they have drawn down so much from their 401(k)’s they have been forced to pay early-withdrawal penalties. But Mr. Beggerow resists being stampeded.

“The future is always a concern, but I no longer allow myself to dwell on it,” he said, waving aside, in his new and precarious life, the preparations for retirement and old age that were a feature of his 30 years as a steelworker.

“When you are in the mode of having money coming in,” he explained, “naturally you think about planning and saving. And then when you don’t have the money coming in, you think less about the future, at least money-wise. It is still a concern, but not a concern that keeps me up at night, not in this life that I am now leading.”

Men like Mr. Beggerow, neither working nor looking for a job, also have become more common in the popular culture, making the phenomenon more acceptable. On the television show “Seinfeld,” Cosmo Kramer, who did not work, and George Costanza, who regularly lost jobs, were beloved figures. Personal-finance magazines whose circulations have grown rapidly over the last 25 years also encourage not working ― by telling readers how to afford retirement at 50 and by painting not working as the good life, which it apparently is for a small number of wealthy men. About 8 percent of non-working men between 30 and 54 lived in households that had more than $100,000 of income in 2004.

“Men don’t feel a need to be in a career, not as much as they once did,” said Ruth Milkman, a sociologist at the University of California at Los Angeles. “Nor do men have the incentive they once had to pursue a career, not when employers are no longer committed to them.”

Mr. Priga, the former Xerox engineer who lives in Los Angeles, has been wandering in this latter Diaspora. He is a tall, thin man with a perpetually dour expression. His dress ― old jeans and a faded khaki shirt ― seemed out of place in the upscale Beverly Hills restaurant where he was interviewed for this article. But his education and skill were not out of place.

Mr. Priga is an electrical engineer skilled in computer technology, and much involved, as he tells the story, in writing early versions of Internet and e-mail software for banks and other companies. A divorce in 1996 left him with custody of his three children. One of them had behavioral problems and to care for the boy he dropped out of steady work for a while, mortgaging his house to raise money and designing Web sites as a freelancer.

He re-entered the work force in 2000, joining Xerox at just over $100,000 a year as a systems designer for a new project, which did not last. In the aftermath of the dot-com bust, Xerox downsized and Mr. Priga was let go in January 2003.

From Prison to Joblessness

“I’ve been through a lot of layoffs over the years, and there is a certain procedure you follow,” he said. “You contact the headhunters. You go looking for other work. You do all of that, and this time around it didn’t work.”

So he went back to designing Web sites as a freelancer, postponing the purchase of health insurance. No work has come his way since March, and even if people had hired him to design Web sites for them, Mr. Priga would not consider that real employment.

His father is his standard. At Mr. Priga’s age, 54, “my father was with Rockwell International designing the fiber optic backbone for U.S. Navy ships,” he said. “He got a regular paycheck. He had retirement benefits, medical benefits, all of that. I’m at that age and I don’t see that as even possible. I’ve kind of written off the idea completely. I’m more like a casual laborer.”

The Bureau of Labor Statistics determines who is working through a monthly survey of 65,000 representative households. People are asked if they did any work for pay in the week before the survey, including self-employment. For Mr. Beggerow and Mr. Priga, the answer has been no.

The same goes for Rodney Bly, a 41-year-old Philadelphia man struggling with a prison record, although he has had income ― from off-the-books work that he refuses to think of as employment.

Mr. Bly, a lanky, neatly dressed six-footer, was in and out of jail, mostly on drug convictions, from 1996 until 2003, but has been clean since then, he said in an interview last month. He has even been a leader of an Alcoholics Anonymous-style group of former addicts who meet regularly and do their best to stay off drugs and out of jail.

Mr. Bly has been living in a recovery shelter for addicts and shows up occasionally for meals at St. Francis Inn, a soup kitchen and health clinic in a poor North Philadelphia neighborhood that tries to help ex-convicts get work and keep it.

He has worked pretty regularly, distributing flyers. But that brings him only $270 a week, most of which goes to the shelter for rent, utilities and food. More to the point, the work is off the books, which makes Mr. Bly invisible in the national statistics as a member of the work force.

Still, he has a girlfriend, reports Karen Pushaw, a staff member at St. Francis, “and that grounds him, keeps him looking for legitimate work.”

Ms. Pushaw tries to help. At her encouragement, he applied for 25 jobs this spring but received no offers, not even an interview. The obstacle is two felony convictions, one for car theft, the other for three instances of drug possession.

“Because of the two felonies, I can’t get a job as a security guard or a sales person or a short-order cook,” Mr. Bly said. “I can be a pot washer or a dish washer, but I can’t get a job that pays more than $8 an hour, not a legitimate one. I’m excluded.”

Amanda Cox contributed reporting for this article from New York.



Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

Posted: 2006-07-31 11:12
by vivi
Sorry I haven’t read it yet, but the first thing that jumped into my head after reading the title was ‘George Costanza’. :f16:

Posted: 2006-07-31 11:41
by Jun
别瞧不起这个失业无工作的中年人/前工厂工人,他写小说看历史书,很有文化的。所以我才觉得真fascinating.

Posted: 2006-07-31 12:08
by 火星狗
I guess it's just widely accepted: men without job = loser. Seinfield already told us so much about it. Only a tiny fraction of people will pay attention to this group without despise and/or pity.

Posted: 2006-07-31 12:10
by tiffany
How do they pay their bills? that is my one and only question.

Posted: 2006-07-31 12:24
by Jun
I guess they don't.

Besides the minor annoyance of paying the bills, I guess his life isn't half bad.

I've always been fascinated by people who have no innate need or ability to "save for the rainy days," particularly because as a Chinese person and growing up around people obsessed with fear of poverty, I cannot fathom the state of mind that is indifferent to savings.

Posted: 2006-07-31 12:39
by Jun
And contrast this story with a story I've heard recently about a Chinese Ph.D. graduate committing suicide because he could not find work, it seems even more interesting as a sociological and cultural study.

Posted: 2006-07-31 12:42
by 豪情
就和多数GAY并不是美男一样, 多数无工作男人也不浪漫.

Posted: 2006-07-31 12:51
by Jun
就和多数GAY并不是美男一样, 多数无工作男人也不浪漫.
Except the minorty of men-without-work who are heirs to rich family and whose only duty in life is be a social butterfly. :lol: Then they are superdesirable. :p

Posted: 2006-07-31 13:29
by 豪情
And contrast this story with a story I've heard recently about a Chinese Ph.D. graduate committing suicide because he could not find work, it seems even more interesting as a sociological and cultural study.
A single case doesn't have statistical significance.
I happen to know an american guy who commited suicide after long period of being in and out of work. He dropped out to start his own business during the days of high-tech craziness. After his startup failed, he returned to school to finish his Math degree at 30. He struggled between low-pay jobs, volunteering and joblessness, across the coasts for 4 years before he moved back to his parents' place. He used to be a shy and polite kid, tall and slim but returned out of shape. His mom told me he used to hike a lot like any native NW kid but he had to give up because of a knee injury. He was always hoping to get the surgery done once he gets health insurance from a real job. After failing a couple of job interviews for the company he used to do internship in college, he committed suicide.

Fear of poverty may not be a bad thing in the proper circumstance. If he had taken whatever to support himself , he might still be alive. Same to the Chinese guy. I doubt the theory suicide is pathologic because some people may just choose it as the easy way out.

I once met a white guy who helped out on gardening work, $10 per hour. He relocated to the city from the rural area where he lost his maufacture work. It is hard to be part of the structural unployment. You are just hopeless especially when you are at mid-age. Too late to pursue something new and too early to die.

Posted: 2006-07-31 13:39
by 火星狗
Too late to pursue something new and too early to die.
这句话看得人真难过。
至于那位写小说看历史书的中年人,不过他的生活看上去什么样,frustration总是在那里。
这篇文章没有回答一个很重要的问题,这些失业的人对将来可能的"rainny day"是什么样的看法,他们是真的不太在意,还是绝望的不想去碰这个问题。

Posted: 2006-07-31 13:43
by Jun
A single case doesn't have statistical significance.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! :worthy: :action077:

Posted: 2006-07-31 14:05
by silkworm
我忽然想起王小波的一篇小说《夜里两点钟》,摘几段
忽然想起了去年冬天,我们两口子到佛罗里达去玩,遇上了一条垃圾虫。和我们一道的还有我哥哥。家兄在国内是学中国古典哲学的,也出来念博士。放假时他闲着没事,我接他出来散散心。一散散到了Keywest,这地方是美国的最南端的一个群岛,是旅游胜地,岛上寸土寸金。别的不要说,连宿营地里的帐篷位都贵,在那儿露营一天,换个地方能住很好的房间。就是在这样的地方,空房子也很多……我们在闲逛时闯进了一座没人的别墅,在房门前休息,忽然冒出个人来,问我们认不认得此地的业主。那个人留一撮山羊胡子,大约有三十来岁,穿一身油脂麻花的工作服。这就是那条垃圾虫了……他开着很少见的一辆中型卡车――我四五岁时在北京见过这种车,好像是叫万国牌。此人修理汽车的本领肯定很不错。   

该垃圾虫说,看到海边有几条破船,假如业主不要了,他想把它们搬走。我们当然不认识业主――说完了这几句话,他没马上走开,和我们聊了起来――就和现在一样。但当时可不是夜里两点钟。你猜猜聊什么,哲学。此人自称是老子的信徒,他说,根据老子的学说,应该物尽其用,不可以暴殄天物;美国人太浪费了,老把挺好的东西扔掉,他自己虽是美国人,也看不惯这种作风。所以别人扔的他都要拣起来,修好,再卖钱――我一点都不记得老子有这种主张。我只觉得他是在顺嘴胡扯,掩饰自己拣垃圾的行径,但家兄以为他说得有理论依据。不唯如此,他们聊得还甚为投机。眼见得话题与魏晋秦汉无缘,直奔先秦而去,听着听着我就听不懂了,这个老美还冒出些中文来,怪腔怪调,半可解半不可解。说来也怪,这家伙不会讲中国话,但能念出不少原文――据说是按拼音背的。我哥哥的硕士论文题目是公孙龙和惠施,还能和他扯一气。要是换了我,早就傻了。就是这条垃圾虫说:美国的有钱人大多,就在这个寸土寸金的岛(我记得是叫马拉松岛)上,还有无数的房子成年空着。在厨房里,我和小宋谈起这件事。小宋打断我说:这件事你讲过,我知道。你哥哥还说,这个垃圾虫是他见过的最有学问的人。别人听过的故事,再给他讲一遍,是有点尴尬。我摇摇头不说话了。  

有关这条垃圾虫的事,小宋听过,你未必听过。那人长了一嘴黄胡子,头发很脏,身上很破,看上去和个流浪汉没两样――要是在中国,就该说他活像是建筑工地上的民工――但我哥哥对他的学养甚为佩服,和他分手之后,家兄开始闷闷不乐,开车走到半路上,只听他在后座上长叹一声:学哲学的怎么是这个样了!后来我哥哥拿到了学位,没有去做学问,改行做生意去了。我没有去做生意,但我怎么也看不惯富人的作风。   

有关家兄,还可以说得再多些,他原来的专业是中国逻辑史――这个名字怪怪的。到了美国,他修符号逻辑。这门课很困难,眼见得他头上的毛一天比一天少。要是在本世纪初年,这门科学很受重视,全世界的人都关心逻辑学的进展,现在可好,全美国只剩了一打人在研究这门科学,除了这一打人,谁也不打听什么叫作符号逻辑。这一打人里,有半打和家兄熟,剩下半打也会知道家兄――总的来说,家兄是为符号逻辑增辉的人,很受圈内人尊重。但他现在开了一家有二百多台的餐馆,用他那可以给逻辑增辉的头脑研究各种生意经……当然,这也是给逻辑增辉。古时候有位哲学家,好像是叫泰勒斯,有一回搁下哲学不干,去做了一回生意,挣了大钱。他用这种方法证明了:以哲学家的聪明去发财,简直是易如反掌,只是他平时不屑去干罢了。我现在是个小说家了,好像我也该写本能销一百万的烂书,为小说家增辉……像这么胡扯下去又没了边际。让我们书归正传――   

我哥哥和收垃圾的谈了半天,对他的见解很佩服,就说:你可以出本书,谈谈这些事情。那人顺嘴带出一句他妈的来,说道:Mr王,出书是要贴钱的呀。看来收垃圾的收入有限,不足以贴补出书。后来他面带微笑地说:咱们这么聊聊,不也是挺好的吗――这种微笑里带着点苦味。现在这位老子的信徒大概还在海天一色的马拉松岛上收着垃圾,遇到中国来的高明之士,就和他谈谈哲学――与俗世无争,这种生活大有犬儒的遗风。但我不信他真有这么达观,因为一说到出书,他嘴里就带“他妈的”。尽管是老子的信徒,钱对他还是挺有用处。我现在也想说句他妈的,我有好几部书稿在出版社里压着呢,一压就是几年,社里的人总在嘀咕着销路。他们说,这本书肯定要招来麻烦,要是销路好,还值得一干……归根结底还是想赚钱。要是我有钱,就可以说,老子自费出书,你们给我先印出来再说――拿最好的纸,用最好的装帧,我可不要那些上小摊的破烂。有件事大家都知道:一本书要是顾及销路的话,作者的尊严就保不住。

Posted: 2006-07-31 14:08
by tiffany
大家都是一肚皮的不合时宜

Posted: 2006-07-31 15:08
by 森林的火焰
Very few of the books Mr. Beggerow reads are novels, and certainly not the escapist Westerns that he himself writes (two in the last five years), his hope being that someday he will interest a publisher and earn some money. His own catholic tastes range over history ― currently the Bolshevik revolution and a biography of Charlemagne ― as well as music and the origins of Christianity.

He often has strong views about what he has just read, which he expresses in reviews that he posts on Amazon.com: 124 so far, he said.

这个人虽然写小说看历史书,但是恐怕他看书的方式是一遍遍加深已有的印象和成见,寻找支持自己观点的材料,过滤掉反对的。并以积累材料的方式证明自己存在的价值――比如在Amazon上写书评。
这个比我们的大讨论要悲惨得多,不得不说。

Posted: 2006-07-31 15:47
by 豪情
更悲惨的是出去玩遇到红脖子要和我们讨论台湾问题, 说的都是FOX的一套. :lol: 不过关心天下大事显然不影响人家的吃饭问题,就象哲学不影响垃圾王和王老大的生意一样, 还好还好.
听某同事说他们教会SURVEY问最大的成就, 很少有人回答和工作有关的. 在崇尚INDIVIDUALISM的今天, 工作如果不能使你STAND OUT, 只能从工作外找了.

Posted: 2006-08-01 9:01
by helenClaire
tiffany wrote:How do they pay their bills? that is my one and only question.
文章开头的地方说,他用家庭存款,提前支取退休金,太太有零星收入。他们生活开销也不大。
JUN提到自杀的双料博士对比,很有意思。正好两类人我都有接触。
公司里颇有些高中毕业就进来的,二十五年后,四十出头的年纪,按规定就可以退休拿不错的PENSION,保留医疗保险。--当然比文章里被裁的情形要好。小时候不爱读书的人,大了也不爱读。听说他们有的去做房屋经纪,有的开餐馆开店开农场,有的去翻修房子,都是挺不错的第二职业。
认识的一帮生物博士是另一个极端,学历特别高,但有的人也不知怎么搞的,四十左右的年纪了,博士后做到第二、三届,还拖着,报怨工作难找。说起来,这些人半辈子了还没有过他们的第一份正式工作(博士后大多是合同制的)。
都是四十左右的岁数,都面临人到中年重新开始不容易的问题。一个学历低不太可能找到高薪工作,好像生活已经结束,但前面二十多年工作多少有些存款退休金;另一个学历顶尖,没有什么退休金存款,工作不好找(没有工作经验),好像常年处在准备阶段,事业一直没有真正开始,可一旦找到了工资会不错。
各有各的难。

Posted: 2006-08-01 9:10
by tiffany
helen 说的我一身冷汗啊。
其实我今年是工作倦怠期,年初开始就有各种各样的问题出来,搞的我工作热情的没有,跟去年干劲儿十足是没法儿比的。该找份儿正式工作了,我叹气说。

Posted: 2006-08-01 10:59
by Jun
这个人... 看书的方式是一遍遍加深已有的印象和成见,寻找支持自己观点的材料,过滤掉反对的。
这个习惯嘛,从总统大人/高级知识分子到街上无家可归脑子进水唠叨CIA跟踪自己的社会各界人士,都是一样的,在这一点上世界大同。我在脑子里转了转,一时还想不起身历过的反例。一件冲突里的双方(包括台湾问题)大多合乎以上形容。
小时候不爱读书的人,大了也不爱读。
对了,Helen这么一说,我总算明白自己昨天到底想要说什么了。我想说的是:有文化,读书,so what? 实际上读书并不见得能跟生存能力直接挂钩。(我本来想说有时候读书多了把common sense都影响了,但是并无证据表明没有常识的人读不读书都一样没有常识,遂做罢。)

Posted: 2006-08-01 11:09
by tiffany
没常识的人就是没有常识啊,念书的话还有知识,好不好就是另外一回事儿了。

Posted: 2006-08-01 11:47
by lindamm
Jun wrote:
这个人... 看书的方式是一遍遍加深已有的印象和成见,寻找支持自己观点的材料,过滤掉反对的。
这个习惯嘛,从总统大人/高级知识分子到街上无家可归脑子进水唠叨CIA跟踪自己的社会各界人士,都是一样的,在这一点上世界大同。我在脑子里转了转,一时还想不起身历过的反例。一件冲突里的双方(包括台湾问题)大多合乎以上形容。
我在文学城上看到这篇文章的中文版,一向是个悲观主义的人,凡事先想worst scenario, 看完这篇后,第一反应是很沮丧,觉得连美国本土人都落到这个样子了。。。后来想着不过也是支持自己原来的观点而已。从乐观的角度想,其实他们索性放弃了,对移民可能还是好处呢。

以前就业特别差的时候,businessweek动辄登混得很差的商学院毕业生的案例,印象特别深的是说西北大学的一个女生end up在target打一小时8块钱的工。这个case by case,究竟有多少代表性很难说,至于目的何在呢,也是满足个人不同的诉求――比如我在国内认识的一些人总觉得我们是国外混得很糟糕,一不小心就要失业,如果回国的话一定是海带 :? 也算是媒体导向的结果吧

Posted: 2006-08-01 11:52
by 森林的火焰
有时候看一些人的文章著作,觉得他们的思维还是有成长和进化的过程的。他们一样有观点有反对立场,但是反对立场有根据,make sense。
反过来也有很多人翻来覆去地讲自己的观点,可是讲来讲去都没有逻辑,就是东拉西扯地引事例。总而言之,没有论证的方法和艺术。只会讲观点没有事例的,很容易看穿;有观点却有一大堆不相干事例或一堆没有逻辑关系事例的,能唬住一批人。不少人看书,就是为了看成后一种人。不能否认各种人群里都有这样的人,但很渊博,会论证,会表达的人还是存在的。

Posted: 2006-08-01 12:08
by Jun
很渊博,会论证,会表达的人 I've seen many and pretty much everyone is still trying to persuade the lambs (ie, the public) to subscribe to their beliefs. I just cannot immediately remember the last time I witnessed someone who turns around and says, "You are right. You've changed my mind on XYZ."

That's why it so damned hard for a human being to "put himself in the other person's shoes". Empathy is as difficult as ... camels going through a needle hold. That's why scientific discoveries are never as popular as merely cathering to what people want to believe.

Posted: 2006-08-01 12:19
by 密斯张三
由(且仅仅由)书籍来实现自我价值,获得满足感,这很可悲。
比如早年的亦舒,知道艾伦坡的名字怎拼就看不起别人。其实很多时候,我们从书里学到的不过是information recognition,类似考试会做多项选择题。