UV Tech 枪击，死了33人

simonsun · Post by **simonsun** » 2007-04-16 20:49

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/us/16 ... nted=print

lvxiu · Post by **lvxiu** » 2007-04-16 21:49

说是中国人来着，我不能相信

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 7:19

Gunman Who Killed 32 Lived in Va. Tech Dormitory

By Ian Shapira, Tom Jackman and Howard Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, April 17, 2007; 8:32 AM

BLACKSBURG, Va., April 17 -- Virginia Tech president Charles W. Steger said today that the gunman who rampaged through the campus on Monday leaving 32 dead was a student who lived in one of the school's dormitories.

The name of the assailant has not been publicly released, but Steger, in an interview on CNN, said he was an Asian male who was "a resident in one of our dormitories."

A range of sources, including federal and local officials with knowledge of the case, have told the Washington Post that the assailant was of Korean descent. His parents live in Fairfax County, one official there said.

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 7:42

In the morning news someone immediately asked if he's on student visa and the anchor hesitated and said we believe he's American. It is said he's from the affluent northern VA.

森林的火焰 · Post by **森林的火焰** » 2007-04-17 7:47

英国每日邮报的报道好象特别详细。

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... =1811&ct=5

Knowing · Post by **Knowing** » 2007-04-17 8:04

CNN says the gunman Cho Seung-Hui is South Korean and resident alien

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 8:07

yes, 23-year old English major from South Korea
I wonder where he got the guns

boat · Post by **boat** » 2007-04-17 8:08

不知你们怎么样？我一开始看见说学生visa，看见那个姓，真耽心是中国学生来着，所以，现在反倒有松了口气的感觉。我知道我不该这么狭隘，可我，可我，这心里活动就是这样的；

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 8:13

It's understandable. If the gunman was indeed on student visa, I'm sure the public hysteria would demand FEWER student visas being given out -- thus drastically limit the number of foreign students in US.

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 8:22

Plus, Jun, didn't they also hang on the fact that the 911 terrorists were on student visas?

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 8:25

Oh, I didn't read that part about 9/11.

Well, OK, the latest report says Cho immigrated to US as a child. So he's not on student visa. Foreign students can feel a bit relieved.

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 8:28

I see. Because, I was wondering, usually, you'll need to be pretty familiar with the laws and surroundings to get access to guns.

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2007-04-17 8:33

yeah, this one is a resident alien....

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 8:33

green card holder

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2007-04-17 8:36

well, I do not really think it will result in tighter visa control, yet. 'cause basically, america is an immingration country, buttom line is that this country needs immingrants.

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 8:37

Of course not. I was talking about public hysteria.

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 8:51

boat wrote:不知你们怎么样？我一开始看见说学生visa，看见那个姓，真耽心是中国学生来着，所以，现在反倒有松了口气的感觉。我知道我不该这么狭隘，可我，可我，这心里活动就是这样的；

Really? How does it make you feel relieved that he is Korean/Korean American but not Chinese?

It makes no difference to the thirty-some people who got killed. And to those who will capitalize on the public hysteria and make racial slurs, they can't tell the difference between Koreans and Chinese. We are all Asians, all "foreign" to them. They ain't gonna say, oh, pardon me, miss, you are Chinese, I am not addressing you.

Knowing · Post by **Knowing** » 2007-04-17 9:00

It doesn't make a difference if you are Chinese or Korean, student on F1-visa or resident or have been here for generations. As long as you have yellow skin and slanted eyes you might go crazy and shoot people. That's called stereotype and racial profiling.

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 9:12

Exactly. That's how stereotype works.

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 9:14

I'll have to say this incident totally defies the stereotype of Asians as being meek and timid.

森林的火焰 · Post by **森林的火焰** » 2007-04-17 9:17

Knowing wrote:It doesn't make a difference if you are Chinese or Korean, student on F1-visa or resident or have been here for generations. As long as you have yellow skin and slanted eyes you might go crazy and shoot people. That's called stereotype and racial profiling.

or say, you might ALSO go crazy and shoot people。。。

Did anybody remember Lu Gang, the one killed his lab coworker Chinese student, his supervisor, the department dean, and secretary? some years ago...

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 9:18

花差花差小将军 wrote:I'll have to say this incident totally defies the stereotype of Asians as being meek and timid.

One crazy bastard does not disprove the rest of Asians being meek and timid either...

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 9:22

But perhaps people would be careful when they want to mess with Asians. I didn't mean to tick you off. My recent experience tells me they usually think you are Asian and they can sweet talk you or wear you out. But once you call the police and the police turns out to be Asian American, you got to see the facial expression. I'll tell the story later. I can't type that much now.

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 9:30

I now recall a hunting incident when a Laotian killed 6 redneck hunters. That was some markmanship. Although what a psycho!

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 9:31

Yes I remember that. Last year or so? I remember the picute of his widow with the children

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2007-04-17 9:31

我承认我也狭隘的松了一口气。

这件事情倒是很能反映aliens惊弓之鸟的心态。虽然政治正确的大前提挂在那里，可是事实存在的压力也在那里，每个人都能感觉到。Aliens可以做到不去stereotype别人，可是无法避免成为stereotype的对象。想要在这个社会里不说取得认同，至少平平安安不受打搅的生活下去，有时候居然就取决于那么简单粗暴的stereotype。

其实稍有点理智的人都明白这是个小概率个案，即使真的是中国人也不能说明任何问题。可是在骆驼背上已经背了那么多稻草的情况下，也许再加一根就真的趴下了。另一方面，也别以为是个resident alien的韩国人就天下太平了。who knows what will happen?

别处看到的，有些中国人对这些rumor的反应非常激烈。我可以理解，不过我更想做的是把这些事情抛到脑后。不是什么pleasant的事情，想深了很depressing，选择性失明吧。

Knowing · Post by **Knowing** » 2007-04-17 9:32

Aliens可以做到不去stereotype别人，可是无法避免成为stereotype的对象

I am not sure about that. Chinese oversea students as a group love to stereotype. If you read mitbbs, the racial discrimination, especially to Indians, is horrible.
But again, the mitbbs group has a lot of mental issues, it is far more than just racial discrimination.

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2007-04-17 9:42

很对。这件事情是个人选择，每个人可以去做也可以不做。不过很多人都选择去做，那些越是stereotype的受害者越喜欢去做。冤冤相报何时了啊。

我喜欢恶人谷的一个原因是这里从来就没有racial discrimination的立足之地。

这件事情上只能独善其身，兼济天下是休想了，至少在目前的地球上不可能。

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 9:45

这件事情是个人选择，每个人可以去做也可以不做。不过很多人都选择去做，那些越是stereotype的受害者越喜欢去做。冤冤相报何时了啊。

I don't understand what you are talking about. 个人选择? 可以去做也可以不做? 越是stereotype的受害者越喜欢去做?

Mr. Cho shot and killed 32 innocent people. What does any of it have to do with 冤冤相报? How do you know whether he was a victim of racism? And even if he were (which there has been no evidence), does that remotely justify his crimes????

Perhaps I am not in the position to say this, but I often do not understand this victim mentality -- oh how we Chinese immigrant suffer racism in America. So what. Chinese immigrants haven't suffered a fraction of the institutional and personal racism imposed on blacks and Latinos.

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 9:48

If you read mitbbs, the racial discrimination, especially to Indians, is horrible.

I feel it's a group that lacks compassion for others. Of course compassion is an emotional luxury, and it is an overly abused word.

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 9:50

It's a horrfic and tragic crime. We do not know what exactly happened to Mr Cho but I don't think anything would justify or call for such heartless mass murder. I feel sad: what kind of place are we living in now? We tell kids from the ghetto to stay in school so that they won't be killed in the streets and yet we send the kids to school and they get killed there? What a tragic waste of human lives. I can't imagine what the parents of the victims are going through now, and Mr. Cho's family.

Jun · Post by **Jun** » 2007-04-17 9:54

what kind of place are we living in now?

We live in a place that thousands of young people are sent to another country to kill hundreds of thousands of other people while getting themselves killed and maimed. This is the human condition. To me there is no fundamental difference between deaths and deaths, murders and murders, killings and killings, hate and hate, regardless of who is responsible. Once a person's dead, he's dead. No ideology or "cause" or reason (including someone else's revenge) can bring him back to life.

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2007-04-17 9:56

是我表达不清，那一句是回小K对于mitbbs上的stereotype的描述的，事实上和原来的案子没什么关系。其实是说中国学生在生活中感到minority的压力于是就把这种压力负面的发泄出去，表现形式就是踩indians。当然也不是全体中国学生，仅限于mitbbs上的某些。

这个案子我觉得最depressing的一点是原本和racial毫无关系，居然就是这么一个边边角角的小rumor挑动了这么多敏感的神经（包括我自己），把那么多人的思想阴暗面暴露了一下。

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 9:59

I still am not clear what you are trying to say. Obviously you must be from mars

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 10:00

我承认我也狭隘的松了一口气。

I am not surprised that people say this. I am just amazed by how people justify and excuse for their sense of relief and lack of empathy. All these spiel of immigrant angst and no place on earth is safe, whatever, just don't cut it with me.

火星狗 · Post by **火星狗** » 2007-04-17 10:07

我知道松了一口气不是什么高尚的感情，我从来就没有试图justify它。其实这正是内心某些不那么光明的思想活动的反应，事实上是weakness所在。

关于我们住在哪里。很显然在地球上，带着自身的弱点，和一群有弱点的人在一起。不过我的weakness比大家显然多一些，抱歉。

我昨天看那个新闻的时候很难受，基本的同情心我有，unsettling aliens的感受我也有，如此而已。

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 10:19

I am not bothered by your weakness, everybody has them. I am bothered by this attitude, or phrasing, that 'so what it is a weakness? I am entitled to feel this way because I am an immigrant who is under a lot of 生存压力. And besides, I am already stereotyped, so why should I care?'

And this self-admitting 狭隘 is just a disclaimer. I don't get the feeling that you actually feel you are 狭隘.

Knowing · Post by **Knowing** » 2007-04-17 10:23

Let's just cut it. Enough negative energy around this already. We all have weaknesses, but it will be better that we can be aware of them and consciously not to let them control us.

Let's grieve over the loss of the victims, appreciate being alive, and try to channel one's negative feeling into positive energy in one's own way. I will start by being more patient and tolerant towards teenagers full of raging hormones, for I had been one in the past. And I will stop making fun of mitbbs crowd, for that serves no real purpose except making myself feel superior.

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 10:24

Yeah, you are right. It ain't about us.
I will shut up now.

花差花差小将军 · Post by **花差花差小将军** » 2007-04-17 10:31

This is what kicking boxing is for

boat · Post by **boat** » 2007-04-17 12:09

我刚干完活，上来看到你们的讨论，不知我还该不该说，我想把我的心里活动原本的讲一讲，也想听听你们的想法，看看我和你们的差距在哪里。

刚开始说是学生和只知道那个姓时，我觉得如果真是中国人，媒体不知又会怎么评论这件事情。我的感觉是肯定要说中国学生怎么怎么样，比如，你在听新闻时总是听到中国学生杀了多少多少人，这个让我有很大的心里负担，不仅我很不喜欢听到说中国人怎么怎么不好，而且就好像我自己做错了什么一样。 (当然，到现在我害怕听到的这些还没出现。) 这里牵涉到一个问题是我觉得美国的媒体也是倾向性很明显的，他们是会从“这是个外国人”这个角度看问题并做文章的。关于媒体问题是另外的话题了，就不扯远了。

我自己会很自然的想，如果这是一个美国白人学生，媒体会怎么报导呢？

无辜的人已经去了，这个是无可挽回了。我心里松了口气：“还好不是我同族类的人干的。”

怎么说呢，我特想知道难道你们心里真的一点儿我这样的想法也没有？对于死去的人，他们是无辜的，无论是谁干的。但现在是对于活着的人，如果是美国白人干的，我觉得我的心里就不会有一点点儿负罪感，有的就是“这世道怎么了？”这样的震惊了。

Knowing · Post by **Knowing** » 2007-04-17 12:56

我来告诉你为什么，因为世界是围着你转的。中国学生只是你放大的自我。中国学生丢脸就是你丢脸。

karen · Post by **karen** » 2007-04-17 13:29

我自己会很自然的想，如果这是一个美国白人学生，媒体会怎么报导呢？

你没看Columbine高中枪杀的报道吗？那可是连续报道了好几年。别告我跟中国人没关的新闻你都不在乎。

water · Post by **water** » 2007-04-17 13:49

Knowing wrote:我来告诉你为什么，因为世界是围着你转的。

这也太self-righteous了吧,911后连锡克人都被当中东人暴打,飞机乘客就因为同机仓有包大头巾的乘客拒绝上飞机,有这么点子阴影都被说成"世界是围着你转的。"如果这次凶手真是拿F1的中国学生,呆在美国的中国学生们和还在国内申请留学的学生们生活,就业就一点也不受影响?

我可以理解为什么有人会有这种想法,可是希望有这种想法的人"己所不欲,勿施于人",既然心理上有这种阴影,就不要反过来racial profile别的种族的人.

tiffany · Post by **tiffany** » 2007-04-17 13:55

哇，您这个就快赶上悲伤的杞人之忧天程度了。
真的拿f-1的中国学生，也颇出过几个疯子。别说大环境如何，玉米地大学因此少招中国学生了么？还没怎么样呢，不要着急摆受害者姿态。

boat · Post by **boat** » 2007-04-17 13:55

Knowing wrote:我来告诉你为什么，因为世界是围着你转的。中国学生只是你放大的自我。中国学生丢脸就是你丢脸。

我好像是有中国学生丢脸就是我丢脸的问题。可这与“世界是围着你转的”是什么关系？我是真没懂。

Knowing · Post by **Knowing** » 2007-04-17 13:58

water wrote: 这也太self-righteous了吧,911后连锡克人都被当中东人暴打,飞机乘客就因为同机仓有包大头巾的乘客拒绝上飞机,有这么点子阴影都被说成"世界是围着你转的。"如果这次凶手真是拿F1的中国学生,呆在美国的中国学生们和还在国内申请留学的学生们生活,就业就一点也不受影响?

我可以理解为什么有人会有这种想法,可是希望有这种想法的人"己所不欲,勿施于人",既然心理上有这种阴影,就不要反过来racial profile别的种族的人.

33 innocent people died and all you care about is possible impact on your visa and job application, I think that's self-centered.
I am not going to argue with you any more. You make me sick.

森林的火焰 · Post by **森林的火焰** » 2007-04-17 13:58

Bowling for Columbine我认为拍得很好。但Michael Moore总改不了他最大的缺陷：太激动。他只能重复地加强已经跟他一个阵营的人的信念，很难说动另一个阵营，或中立略带倾向的人。
受身边舆论和个人经验影响，人心里多少是有弱点的吧。愿意拿出来讨论，也不是件坏事，起码愿意听听别人的意见。另外，生活环境不同感受可能也不同。在开明的东西沿岸生活，可能这种压力可以忽略不计，如果是住在偏僻小城的中国学生，可能兔死狐悲的感受比较强烈。不管怎么样，这根本是个谁都不愿意看到的悲剧。不管是对死者，还是目击者，还是因为种种因素受波及的人们。承认自己的心理弱点是一方面，只要遇到相似的事件时，将心比心，不要以stereotype度量别人就好了。

boat · Post by **boat** » 2007-04-17 14:00

karen wrote:
我自己会很自然的想，如果这是一个美国白人学生，媒体会怎么报导呢？

你没看Columbine高中枪杀的报道吗？那可是连续报道了好几年。别告我跟中国人没关的新闻你都不在乎。

我们慢慢说好吗？

karen, 我的问题是，我在乎的程度不同。而且，我其实对美国的媒体可能是有看法的，我觉得他们容易“发扬” 某些角度。

boat · Post by **boat** » 2007-04-17 14:05

Knowing wrote:33 innocent people died and all you care about is possible impact on your visa and job application, I think that's self-centered.
I am not going to argue with you any more. You make me sick.

knowing, 如果你是说我，你可真是冤枉我了。我没有visa问题，我已经有绿卡2年了。我的问题是我不管什么时候，涉及到中国人，我就特敏感。我想讨论的是这个心态其实不好，但很难，或者说我不知道怎么不这么想。