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Trillion Is The New Billion
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:13
by Knowing
帅哥终于狰狞的露出了社会主义的真面目,新出台的预算方案赤字惊人,大规模提高健康保险,教育和能源的部分,还要大规模的加收入250k以上家庭的税。
与此同时,遮掩扭捏了多日之后,政府承认把给花旗注资的优先股都折算成普通股,合40%的股份,花旗银行虽然没正式国有化成了政府的人,也算基本进了政府的门。已经放进去的几十比林,只不过是下的聘礼。以后还且要扔钱进去。我心里直替阿拉伯王子们怨啊。金融风暴刚起的时候,花旗跑到阿拉伯王子家借了几个比林,当时借的是可转换债卷,收的是好像是11.5%,简直是信用卡的利率。可惜注明两年后必须转成普通股,价格是20多块上下小范围可浮动。相比现在两三块的实际股价,这笔买卖,真是亏的大了。
三言并做两语:国家一定要强。不然别的国家被坑了,也不能乖乖就范。
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:19
by Jun
还要大规模的加收入250k以上家庭的税。
Uh ... I don't think that's true. What happens is that the tax cut for >$250K/yr families instituted in 2001, which originally had a sunset clause to expire in 2010, will be allowed to expire and return to the same rate as the pre-GWB era. These are not new taxes.
The massive tax cut packages in 2001 and 2003 directly contributed to the current deficit and crumbling infrastructure of the country. They have already cost trillions of dollars in revenue --- most of it going into the pocket of corporations (corporate tax cuts).
Several fiscal conservatives, ie, Republicans with spines, disagreed with the tax cuts at that time and were punished by the neo-cons. So please don't tell me that Republicans are interested in balancing budgets.
The corporate tax cuts and capital gains tax cuts all contributed to the bubbles in the stock market in the past decade.
To put it this way -- if you are rich and have your money in stocks and bonds, your income derived from these investment vehicles are taxed at a much lower rate (10% to 20%) compared with income from ordinary savings interests and, especially, from working, which are taxed at the personal income rate (up to 39%).
Anyone see a problem with this incentive system?
No socialism? How about putting an end to government-subsidized stock market gambling and corn-ethonol subsidies and giving a pass for oil companies to drill on Federal land FOR FREE and make a huge profit from oil that belong to all taxpayers? How about cutting some of the massive welfare for the rich? Multimillion-dollar welfare check for Mr. Thain and co.?
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:23
by 豪情
赤字达GDP的12%, 真吓人. 将来有的还. 还有医疗改革. 相比之下加的税恐怕杯水车薪, 也不知道是否能收的到.
让BUSH的减税法案过期. 不到25万一样自动增加税. 首先想到的是税率涨3%和MARRIAGE PENALTY.不过小白盼望的工作者退税会永久保留下来. 25万之上是直接加税, ITEMIZED DEDUCTION只许按28%退税. 希望他们记得把这些AGI的线按通货膨胀调整, 否则若干年后就和现在的AMT一样, 事以愿违.但是是太重要的财政收入, 谁也不肯彻底修补.
就是有这么大个缺口, 不加税怎么办. 只要还保住经济和未来的福利安全网, 大概许多人都不介意加点.
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:31
by tiffany
昨天在收音机里听新喊扑是而那个谢绝财长位置的家伙讲话,说现在这个方案将给我们的下一代造成严重负担,重税。当即就觉得阿土仔真倒霉,生在了金融危机的年代,还没挣钱呢,就一屁股债要还⋯⋯
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:36
by Jun
而且是自己一滴好处都没捞到,替别人的挥霍还钱。连阿富汗的鸦片,伊拉克的石油,都肥了别人,你来买单。
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:46
by silkworm
如果布什当时不砍掉AMT这一块,现在不就不会有人觉得被加税了么。布什他们倒好,稀里哗啦减税,一边还打着昂贵的仗,造下孽来扔个烂摊子。现在不恢复(注意,不是加而是恢复)税、不借钱,就干等着也没用啊。
再就是有人说干嘛给低收入的人减税,他们又不会消费多少刺激经济。好了,让穷人们都饿肚子没房子住,社会要动荡的---这根弦儿估计很多美国人的脑子里都没有的吧。
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:47
by 豪情
如果布什当时不砍掉AMT这一块,现在不就不会有人觉得被加税了么。
我被几个不绕晕了.

SS TAX据说是要取消CAP了.这么着也不知道够不够补窟窿的.
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:50
by silkworm
是够绕的。待我来捋捋,看我写错没有。
如果布什不砍掉AMT,那么现在大家就不会觉得被加税了。
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:51
by 豪情
BUSH什么时候砍掉AMT了?
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:52
by silkworm
Jun wrote:What happens is that the tax cut for >$250K/yr families instituted in 2001, which originally had a sunset clause to expire in 2010, will be allowed to expire and return to the same rate as the pre-GWB era. These are not new taxes.
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:53
by 豪情
这个是普通税率, 和AMT是两个系统.
公认的AMT的问题是TAX BRACKET和DEDUCTION没有按通货膨胀调整, 所以过了若干年就收到普通工薪阶层来了. 现在出台种种退税加税, 都有收入线,如果不按通货膨胀调整, 将来有的扯皮的. 不改不公平, 改了减少财政收入. 现在AMT就是一年一次扯皮, 往往年都过了才通过调整.
IRS这会可忙死了, 我给IRS打电话,好多MENU上的选项是断掉的, 不转也不给留言. 一个月前还好好的, 估计要至少到七八月后才有希望. 我很郁闷很郁闷.
Posted: 2009-02-27 10:54
by silkworm

赶紧闭嘴了我。
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:12
by gigi
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Posted: 2009-02-27 11:25
by 火星狗
大规模提高健康保险,教育和能源的部分
这应该算是好事吧?纳闷的问。
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:29
by dropby
你这一说我特后悔我们两没坚持住,至少有一个保留中国公民身份也好啊。
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:32
by 火星狗
昨天那谁还说全世界人民都在火坑里呢。

Posted: 2009-02-27 11:33
by gigi
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Posted: 2009-02-27 11:44
by Jun
火星狗 wrote:大规模提高健康保险,教育和能源的部分
这应该算是好事吧?纳闷的问。
Not to the bosses dripping with lard. Not for companies making their profit from superexpensive drugs and health care.
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:47
by Knowing
我也跟豪情一样,被巨大的赤字吓到了。管用不管用先不说,我就担心,这通的过么?我觉的帅哥是要趁自己有政治资本硬逼两会通过。但是上次不那么左的刺激方案他都几乎没弄到共和党的票,这个预算能通过么?
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:48
by 火星狗
我刚才倒是想到另一个坏处,这一下我们这一代变成既得利益者了,后面的一代可苦了,不过社会崩溃了后一代更苦,狰狞的说。
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:48
by 豪情
要是通过JUN也不用去加拿大了, 美国就是新加拿大.

但是过去加拿大有美国这个邻居, 美国变加拿大了指望谁呢, 笑嘻嘻的新欢墨西哥?
从超级大国退下来不比经济软着陆容易. 英国完全是运气和站对了队.
Posted: 2009-02-27 11:49
by Jun
豪情 wrote:要是通过JUN也不用去加拿大了, 美国就是新加拿大.

不可能。
Posted: 2009-02-27 12:05
by 豪情
火星狗 wrote:我刚才倒是想到另一个坏处,这一下我们这一代变成既得利益者了,后面的一代可苦了,不过社会崩溃了后一代更苦,狰狞的说。
难道你本来不是既得利益者么? 在这里领奖学金/工作/生活的,谁没得到美国强大的好处? 只是怎么分而已.现在要补以前的大窟窿了, 大家也都会受影响, 还是怎么分的问题.
Posted: 2009-02-27 12:14
by tiffany
但凡开车的,都是既得利益,开车年头越久的得的越多。。。。
我最近突然想起来了,小时侯看新闻联播,欧佩克每天开会要减产石油,有生之年又赶上一次
Posted: 2009-02-27 12:31
by 笑嘻嘻
豪情 wrote:笑嘻嘻的新欢墨西哥
这几个字我看着就高兴!
Posted: 2009-02-27 13:04
by qinger
我对加税没意见,宁愿收入高点多交税,不明白为什么mitbbs上的人哭天喊地--湾区工程师的收入真这么高吗?如果AGI超过25w, 税前可是28w多接近29w(401k+dependent care account)的。不见得大部分家庭能超过这个数吧,也许我比较孤陋?
Posted: 2009-02-27 13:06
by qinger
啊,回错贴了,本来要回那个税的帖子。
Posted: 2009-02-27 13:57
by 豪情
假设弯曲拿ORDINARY INCOME双收入家庭, 没有大的投资所得. AGI 15万到25万, BUSH减税取消后,MARRIAGE PENALTY多交两三千, 税率上涨多交1-3千. 如果已经在交AMT, 影响其实更小些.
AGI25万, 再多交两三千. 因为如果没有大的ITEMIZED DEDUCTION, 不受加税影响. 如果有(例如比较大的贷款利息和房产税), 边际税率也就28%-31%, 其实也不加什么. 虽然25万是分界线, 真正受大影响的是40万以上的. 但是有多少人有40万年度收入还都从ORDINARY INCOME来. 大概弯曲的STOCK OPTON MILLIONAIRS需要担心. 现在我其实担心OBAMA对加这项税增收过于乐观了.
这个线(单身20万, 家庭25万) 不鼓励结婚, 希望天下有情专业人士GAY都结婚分担税务, 阿门.
Posted: 2009-02-27 14:05
by Jun
Good excuse for choosing not to get married. I'll send it to my parents.
Posted: 2009-02-27 14:15
by 笑嘻嘻
加州失业率这么高了,双收入不太多啦。都担心不到这个啦。
Posted: 2009-02-27 14:16
by 豪情
是啊, 股票又跌又失业又减薪的, 大家也不太需要担心这个.

我们就指望街上和药业油业做贡献了.
比较恐怖的是财政赤字在假设2012年经济完全复苏的情况下仍然很高, 因为BABY BOOMER进入退休高潮了.
Posted: 2009-02-27 14:40
by Knowing
街上有钱人负担也重啊,除了养老婆孩子还要养小蜜。小蜜们还不给算deductible.
Posted: 2009-02-27 14:47
by Jun
Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me has made fun of the Wall Street 小蜜们 2 or 3 times.
Posted: 2009-02-27 14:51
by dropby
全世界是不是都要完蛋我不知道,加拿大前几年紧跟美国,减税,尤其是给大公司减税,也很厉害,现在赤字也不是一般的高。小情说得对,加拿大经济对美国依赖性很强。美国好,加拿大不一定能喝着汤。美国不行,加拿大落不了好是肯定的。汽车工业要完蛋了,美国不过是一个州的事情,加拿大整个东部都快完蛋了。经济规模小,更经不起折腾。
Posted: 2009-03-01 18:36
by karen
The federal government is preparing to loosen the terms of its huge loan to the American International Group and provide another $30 billion to the insurer as it prepares to report the biggest quarterly loss in history on Monday, $62 billion, people involved in the discussions said Sunday night.
我看到这个抓眼球的标题吓了一跳! 一个公司三个月内怎么可能丢掉62 billions的钱? 虽然最后有这段解释,还是很难接受。
The loss that A.I.G. is preparing to report on Monday would be the largest ever by any company in a single quarter. Still, of the $62 billion loss being reported, only about $2 billion is a cash loss. The rest is the result of noncash items like write-downs on the value of the company’s assets.