Page 1 of 1
儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 12:10
by tiffany
我老也开始钻研儿歌了，最近。还是觉得英文的儿歌不够朗朗上口，对仗工整的音乐节奏感的奉欠。不过儿歌跟宋词似的，本来是拿来唱的，不能跟律诗比抑扬顿挫，我努力安慰自己说。然后有首著名的儿歌：
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
最后两句念起来就那么悲伤。我老不由得有奇怪谁给小朋友写这么哀痛的歌儿来唱，乃查。wiki真是个好地方，什么都有，包括儿歌来源。原来
这首儿歌最早是个谜语，Humpty Dumpty在18世纪英国指矮胖而缺乏协调性的人，所以这个谜语的谜底是鸡蛋－－－矮胖，摔破了就拼不回去了。这么说来，就可以想像小朋友们拍着手唱，唱到最后一起尖叫：是鸡蛋！的快乐景象。
可是我老还是忍不住跟贾政正月15看下一代字谜之后似的，压抑不住内心深处莫名的悲哀。
the end
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 12:16
by dropby
我们有本给孩子弹的小书，每首歌都有相应的画面，所以我一直知道是鸡蛋，还以为这是不言而喻的呢。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 12:30
by dropby
其实童话和儿歌里经常有惊悚的内容，比如这首鹅妈妈，
My mother has killed me,
My father is eating me,
My brothers and sisters sit under the table
Picking up my bones,
And they bury them under the cold marble stones.
还有灰姑娘里面最后让两姐妹船上烧红的铁鞋，想想都是很恐怖的。
以前的儿童心理比较强大？
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 12:35
by putaopi
劳动人民的歌谣是很朴实的，有时候是出于吓唬孩子的目的。人家那时候的儿童没有我们现在的这么娇嫩。
Ring around Rosie是唱黑死病的;Humpy Dumpty我读的版本是个大炮, 所以有all the king"s man, all the king's horse的字样。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 12:51
by tiffany
huh? 那么说一二，系鞋带这种儿童很宜的儿歌也是近代的事情？
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 13:00
by vivi
这首鹅妈妈也太恐怖了
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 15:39
by Avanti
那首 Ring around the rosey, 是描写鼠役还是黑死病来袭，大家都得病死了,有病尸体要cremation 。现在小孩子们是边唱边拉手转圈，欢快的往地上躺。
Ring around the rosey,
A pocketful of posies.
ashes, ashes.
We all fall down.
"The rhyme dates back to the Great Plague. A rosy rash, they allege, was a symptom of the plague, posies of herbs were carried as protection, sneezing was a final fatal symptom, and 'all fall down' was exactly what happened.""
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-13 19:12
by roulette
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
我看的是中文版的，中文版又是从日文翻译过来的，一开始就是“蛋在……”，没有任何悬念。
关于给儿童的文学，如果要宣扬其中应该没有任何的道德教化，那么同时也该承认，这里面也并没有什么邪恶神秘的隐喻吧。本来就是些nonsense，硬掰些善恶都像是走极端。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 0:06
by Avanti
我挖的是这一首。
Georgie Porgie pudding and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play,
Georgie Porgie ran away.
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 0:51
by Sandman
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
无限唏嘘哦
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 1:25
by 豪情
儿童没有我们的忌讳和粉饰的习惯. 唱唱而已. 才不害怕呢. 完全丛林规则. 文明乃教育出来的.
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 2:43
by roulette
"Uncle Sheldon"写的儿歌书好看，大部分也都是些胡扯：
FANCY DIVE
by Shel Silverstein
The fanciest dive that ever was dove
Was done by Melissa of Coconut Grove,
She bounced on the board and flew into the air
With a twist of her head and twirl of her hair
She did thirty-four jackknives, backflipped and spun,
Quadruple-gainered, and reached for the sun,
And then somersaulted nine times and a quarter-
And looked down and saw that the pool had no water.
这首让我想到王朔的小说《一半是海水，一半是火焰》：一开篇就是燥闷的夏夜，主角和其他待业青年好友翻墙游泳，不知道水池正在放水，结果摔死了一名同伴。很青春华丽的桥段，不知道是不是从这里看来的。
偶尔也很暗色调：
NOBODY
by Shel Silverstein
Nobody loves me,
Nobody cares,
Nobody picks me peaches and pears.
Nobody offers me candy and Cokes,
Nobody listens and laughs at me jokes.
Nobody helps when I get in a fight,
Nobody does all my homework at night.
Nobody misses me,
Nobody cries,
Nobody thinks I'm a wonderful guy.
So if you ask me who's my best friend, in a whiz,
I'll stand up and tell you that Nobody is.
But yesterday night I got quite a scare,
I woke up and Nobody just wasn't there.
I called out and reached out for Nobody's hand,
In the darkness where Nobody usually stands.
Then I poked through the house, in each cranny and nook,
But I found somebody each place that I looked.
I searched till I'm tired, and now with the dawn,
There's no doubt about it-
Nobody's gone!
想想很多人小时候也都有所谓“隐形的朋友”，只是当时不以为苦。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 2:56
by 唐唐的郁金香
dropby wrote:其实童话和儿歌里经常有惊悚的内容，比如这首鹅妈妈，
嗯，没错。我记得小时候（<10岁）读过的某童话，穷人夫妇养不起孩子，多次把小孩领到森林里面要丢掉，结果小孩每次都自己找路回家来。故事以小孩子的口吻写出来，最后还是大团圆的结局！问题是我以前读的时候也没觉得什么不对
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 2:59
by Knowing
我记得！前几次姐姐检了很多石子一路做记号，最后一次她扔的面包碎块都被吃了，就没找回来。后来在森林里看见糖和饼干做的屋子，进去就吃，被巫婆捉住想把他们养肥了吃掉。。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 3:13
by sinca
我也记得这个童话！但是我记忆里，那个丢面包屑的怎么是个哥哥啊。老巫婆那个糖果房子倒是挺吸引人的。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 3:15
by Knowing
我也很喜欢那个糖果屋子！虽然明知是是巫婆的陷阱
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 10:33
by putaopi
Hansel and Gretel, 同名的歌剧里有好几首歌很好听，这故事也被反复地改变成各种电影。其实经典歌剧的故事情节都很drama，充满暴力和色情，不然观众也坐不住啊。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 10:59
by silkworm
roulette wrote:这首让我想到王朔的小说《一半是海水，一半是火焰》：一开篇就是燥闷的夏夜，主角和其他待业青年好友翻墙游泳，不知道水池正在放水，结果摔死了一名同伴。很青春华丽的桥段，不知道是不是从这里看来的。
呃，这个段子不是《一半一半》的开篇，是《过把瘾就死》的开篇。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 11:02
by tiffany
哇！蚕博是真饭啊！
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 11:05
by silkworm
嗯，是，年轻时候看得熟，想忘都忘不了。你们喜欢武侠的肯定也一样的。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 13:14
by Burpie
Recently discovered a very nice local band called "the dog dander". Its lead singer also writes a lot of kids' songs. Last night his bandmates showed me these videos of him singing with his little girl---everyone's heart was just melted away:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28F8RyT6F_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClQYX4pn ... re=related
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 13:23
by dropby
姐弟俩那个是格林童话。据说格林童话很多原始版本非常黑暗，我们看的都是改变过比较温和了。
我小时候最爱的两本书，一本格林童话，一本安徒生童话。大了以后又很喜欢王尔德的童话。小时候更喜欢格林童话，故事性强。安徒生童话很多小时候根本看不明白。安徒生童话很多也都很忧伤啊。
Re: 儿歌
Posted: 2010-05-14 21:02
by roulette
呃，这个段子不是《一半一半》的开篇，是《过把瘾就死》的开篇。
谢谢，我记忆缠绕了。
安徒生童话教化目的太明显，每个故事差不多都能归结出“意义”之类的。格林童话民间味道重一些，所以暴力软色情的内容多。我国也一样，《西游记》里面有孙悟空摔孩子什么的，都是没被文明影响前的忠实记录，现在看来反而成了异色。王尔德写童话，善恶因果的道德教诲应有尽有，我觉得，可以让年轻读者抵消一些对作者的幻想。
nonsense风的当代儿歌，Shel Silverstein和Dr. Seuss's都是热门作者，不过前者的读者群里也有成年人。我喜欢Shel。据说他五十年代曾为Playboy写过几年的诗画专栏，后来才转行写童书=）。