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[zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 13:31
by tiffany
原文on killing 在这里。我不喜欢他黑底灰字儿的页面,转贴过来。

我记得当年看 gone babe gone 的时候,有段儿是一群人在酒吧里讨论爱人的标准。有人说 die for someone is easy, are you willing to kill for someone? 那个才是最难的。

这个人应该曾经是个职业军人,他描述的战争过程,真让人说不出话来。希望世界和平,永不打仗。
On Killing

There’ve been some recent forays into writing combat scenes on some blogs lately. A few fans reached out to me and asked why I didn’t join the conversation. That got me thinking, and not in the way you’d expect.

I’ve said in many interviews that nobody owns the military experience. My being in the military doesn’t make give me any more authority over a military story than anyone else. The same is true for writing combat. One doesn’t have to be a veteran brawler to write a great fight scene.

But I do feel like the end result of fighting, namely, killing, isn’t often treated in a way that resonates with me. I can count on one hand the number of writers who get it right. Joe Abercrombie springs to mind as one of them, a tiny band of authors, and I do not count myself among them, who evoke the consequences of killing in a way that feels authentic.

My friend Hari suggested that writing dead folks is easier than live ones, and I think there’s some truth to that. I think the larger piece is that killing, like everything else in life, is immensely complicated, far more varied than any human art can capture. But there is one thing in particular that I think fantasy writers miss, and I want to dial in on that here.

Killing is a chain.

Fantasy seems to isolate the act to two belligerents, the slayer and the slain, at least as far as the consequences go. But the truth is that, in law-enforcement, counterinsurgency, and war, the ultimate act is the result of the efforts of dozens if not hundreds of people. Each is a participant. Each owns the experience. Each is changed by it. Permanently.

Those changes are rarely positive.

I’ve never killed in the way hard operators do. I’ve never gone toe-to-toe with an enemy, looked him in the eye, and put a bullet in him. I certainly have the risk of deadly force scenarios every time my boarding team turns out, but fortune has spared me that for now. Inshallah, it always will.

But I have killed at a remove. I have been a piece, and a rather integral piece, of a system that absolutely led to the deaths of other people. That these people were considered “enemy combatants” doesn’t make a whit of difference. I have tried hard to own those deaths, and the truth is that, in the end, they own me.

I am still friends with a few hard operators, SFOD-D guys mostly, who got out and went the contractor route after they got home. One of them texts me once every six months or so, largely to regale me with his exploits regarding quantity of drink or of women wooed, and usually both.

It’s easy to see the line between hedonism and anesthesia, and to know he’s crossed it. Make no mistake, this man is dying, as surely as if he had cancer. He had it worse than me, much worse. I gave directions. He pulled triggers. He was supposed to be trained for it, but what they didn’t tell him is that it’s not a thing that you can really train people for. In the rare moments when he’s honest with me, we dig around a little, try to get to the root of the problem. And when he’s finally out of excuses we hit the truth. It wasn’t that the enemy shot at him. It’s that he shot back.

There’s the old salt about humans being animals. Monkeys protecting territory. We fight for dominance, for resources, we compete for mates. All true.

But that’s not what law enforcement is, where you might kill to protect people you barely know, to whom you have no blood ties. And it’s not what war is. This isn’t the sudden burst of adrenaline when a rival enters our territory. A barroom brawl has much more akin with our biological impetus to combat than war, when alcohol has sapped away inhibition and the monkey reigns supreme.

]That’s not war. War is cold, professional killing. It is industrialized extinguishing of human life. It is an assembly line of death, complete with machines of ever evolving capability and complexity to help us get the job done. There is no biological impetus at work here. You didn’t kill your adversary because he threatened to take your mate. You killed him because a person you’ve never met signed a piece of paper telling you that you had to.

That’s not nature. That’s a thing we created all on our own.


I don’t see my friend in fantasy novels. I don’t even see myself. I don’t see these consequences: that killing is permanent both for the slain and the slayer. That the event is a stone thrown in water, sending ripples through every contributor, every observer. That’s a piece of the landscape of change that we call PTSD. It’s a sudden realization that there are things you will always carry, no matter what you do. It is an event that colors everything you experience from that day forward. Forever.

Fantasy novels are terrifically, constantly violent, and too many of them miss this. They don’t grasp that fact that the profession of arms is more akin to taking ascetic orders. Monks sacrifice everything: marriage and property, free will and individuality. Service members place themselves in situations where they could be killed, or worse, have to kill someone else. Its not a sacred calling, it’s a burden they take on in the hopes that others won’t have to.

You hear a lot about warfighters and cops giving the “last full measure,” as though dying were the ultimate sacrifice they are called on to make. It’s not.

In one of my many ruminations with my aforementioned friend, he described an encounter with a Mufsidin (“evildoer,” I do not honor him by calling him Mujihidin) who botched a dynamic entry, kicking halfway through a door and then tripping over the fragments, stumbling into the “fatal funnel” that my friend had covered down.

“Uh oh,” I said, as he paused in his story.

“Yup,” he replied. “Bad day for him.”

“You zapped him?” I asked.

“Two in the chest, one in the head,” he answered. “Dude fucked up. He paid for it.”

Yes, he did, I thought, and so did you.

We all did.

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 15:17
by Jun
各人的体验不同吧?我记得好久之前在 NPR 的某个节目上听过一个访谈(现在死也想不起是哪个节目,无从找起),一个匿名的男青年说他参军的主要目的就是想尝尝杀人的滋味,而且其他跟他一班的新兵里很多都是这样想,他绝不是唯一。而且他也不是 psychopath。普通的少年里大概对杀人好奇的不在少数。(后来他好像有被派到伊拉克,但是一直没机会杀个人。)

加上号称4%的 psychopaths,恐怕杀了人也不会 "pay for it."

不打仗的人类社会可能存在吗?不知道。

在我的书架上有本 Chris Hedges 写的书,War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning. Hedges 是战地记者,采访过不少世界各地的武力冲突。有一天我看见家属要捐出去一叠书里有这本,问他好看吗?他说没看过,不想看了。我抢救下来,但是至今也没看它。The Hurt Locker 的片头语就是 Hedges 这本书里的话,具体说什么我也忘记了。

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 15:35
by tiffany
My being in the military doesn’t make give me any more authority over a military story than anyone else.


everyone is different. however, I do think wanting to know is vastly different from actually doing it.

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 15:52
by Jun
这个问题很复杂。我个人觉得难以想象。

据说杀人确实让多数(男)人感到困难,尤其是刺刀见红地直接杀人,所以士兵需要经过洗脑式训练,令杀人成为一种自动反射,上了战场也不会犹豫。另外各种国家机器,包括军队、警察、监狱等等的作用之一是分散责任(所以说战争中的杀人是工业式机械的呢),将杀人的责任分散到整个社会,而不是“你杀了我爹,我杀你报仇”这种私人恩怨,也在一定程度上分散了杀人的心理负担。

现代技术的发达令发达国家的士兵不必上战场,连尸体和流血也不必亲眼看见,远在万里之外的控制室操纵无人驾驶的飞机扔炸弹,按个钮就得了。下班回家照样老婆孩子热炕头。

但是杀人又是人类历史的定数,无时无刻不有杀人行为发生,虽然 Steven Pinker 拿得出数据表明战争和暴力死亡率在几百年内逐步下降。

(Texas 人说,你们这些 pussy,我们杀人才不手软呢,死刑率直追中国。)

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 15:55
by tiffany
注射都是机器而已了。还要先打肌肉松弛剂,让人没啥反应。

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 16:37
by Knowing
说到杀人。今天我上班比较晚,去地铁的路上正埋头走路,被一中年妇女截住发个传单,纸质精美,连图带话,我没推掉又赶时间懒得纠缠就拿着了,边走边看了眼,靠,精美的印着胎儿从多少天到多少周的照片,啥啥时候有啥知觉什么的,原来是反堕胎的,我心说还挺下本钱啊,懒得多看抬头看见个垃圾桶就要扔。说时迟那时快,突然又一个妇女一个箭步冲到我面前就接过去了。我被读了脑吓一条,抬头一看面前几个人拉着一大横幅,质问我:你对杀死婴儿有什么观点?我厌烦的说:我支持妇女选择的权力。一男的马上客气的问:你能展开讲讲么?我摇头说:不,我不想为其他妇女的个人选择解释。往前走了几步又觉得自己有点儿粗鲁。然后迎面碰见黛比,我提醒她说前面有一拨讨厌的反堕胎人士。她说:哦,他们经常泡在那里。难怪他们计算的那么准确,知道在那个点发单子那个点回收,还挺环保的。

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-18 18:25
by tiffany
也挺省俭。

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-19 5:01
by Knowing
那儿是个堕胎诊所,黛比说那批人天天在门口站班抗议。是等诊所开门才来,所以我以前没见过。
然后看到小白这篇转载,就想,当然我认为堕胎是件不愉快的事情,但是选择堕胎的女人面前通常只有不愉快的更不愉快的选择。那么我还是支持让她有选择的权利,或者提供个更好的选择。比如他们要是在诊所前摆个提供等收养摊子,摆满真实生活里排队等收养孩子的父母殷切眼神的照片,然后拉个横幅`你可以送给他们最宝贵的礼物!`,那我是绝对不会讨厌他们的。恐吓已经心寒胆战的少女妈妈算什么呢?

战争也是一样,谁都不喜欢战争,但是人本来就要扎堆,形成各种集团,然后为了利益斗争,那么战争也没法避免。再讨厌killing 都没有用,那么把战争的残酷摊出来给人看,跟发血淋淋的传单一样,有什么积极意义呢?I don't want to know.
这几天我思想比较消极驼鸟我知道...

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-19 11:05
by dropby
我最近看揭露暗黑电视剧看多了也和小K一样感觉:I don't want to know. 非虚构的黑暗现实更加不想看。像亚当那篇看了让人不敢生娃的东西以后打死我也不看了。就给我看大灰狼和小白兔的简化儿童版粉红世界算了,当然还要编得曲折好看一波三折。我不想知道人性和生活都是多么复杂纠葛,活下去要面对多少血淋淋的现实了。驼鸟们不都活得挺好的?

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-19 11:11
by Jun
逃避是天然的人性,要不然发明遥控杀人武器干啥?要不然发明 lethal injection 干啥?

Re: [zt] on killing

Posted: 2014-03-19 11:24
by dropby
我觉得最惨的情况是逃避不过去,比如正常中产家庭夫妇养了个亚当这样的娃,血淋淋的现实撑着你的眼皮让你一天二十四小时地不看都不行。所以祷告里都请求让自己别受试验。嗯,虽然我不信神,我也求一下老天让我别受试验,可以一辈子驼鸟好了。