[zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

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Jun
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[zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Jun » 2016-09-01 18:13

Today’s Inequality Could Easily Become Tomorrow’s Catastrophe

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/upsho ... e.html?r=0
Economic inequality is already a concern, but it could become a nightmare in the decades ahead, and I fear that we are not well equipped to deal with it.

Truly extreme gaps in income and wealth could arise from many causes. Consider just a few: Innovations in robotics and artificial intelligence, which are already making many jobs uncompetitive, could lead us into a world in which basic work with decent pay becomes impossible to find. An environmental disaster like global warming, pollution or disease could sharply reduce the ability of people of ordinary means to live in specific regions or entire countries.
Along with nine other economists, I contributed to a project that engaged in really long-term forecasting. The results appeared in a book edited by Ignacio Palacios-Huerta of the London School of Economics: “In 100 Years: Leading Economists Predict the Future,” (M.I.T., 2013). None of us expressed optimism that inequality would be corrected in the future, and none of us ventured that any major economic policy was likely to counteract recent trends.
In the disturbing book “Poverty and Famines: An Essay on Entitlement and Deprivation,” (Oxford, 1983) Amartya Sen, a Harvard professor, documented an extraordinary thing: In each of four devastating famines in different parts of the world, there was enough food to keep everyone alive. The problem in each case was that the food was not shared adequately. Systems of privilege and entitlement permitted hoarding of food by people of status whose lives went on much as usual, except that they had to brush off starving beggars and would occasionally see dead bodies on the street.
Robert Shiller 是诺贝尔奖经济学得主,Yale 大学教授,曾经写过 "Irrational Exuberance",预测了房市泡沫。他写文章的风格特有趣,用温和平稳的口吻传递强烈可怕的观点。

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CAVA
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by CAVA » 2016-09-02 3:35

唐朝诗人说:朱门酒肉臭,路有冻死骨。我们现在比唐朝有进步吗?

全球变暖这个公认的事实还有人否认。http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-37091391

Knowing
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Knowing » 2016-09-02 4:28

不需要doom, 再来个世界大战贫富差距就缩小了。

However, Mr Roberts said the climate data had been "corrupted".
"What do you mean corrupted?" Prof Cox asked.
Mr Roberts responded: "Manipulated".
"By who?" Prof Cox asked.
"Nasa," Mr Roberts said.
Say no more. Brian Cox was so frustrated by the stupid politician. he reminded me why I left the States in the first place.
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by CAVA » 2016-09-02 4:43

这个跟Brexit的辩论一样一样的。你给出数据证据,对方说是假的编的不可靠的,或者是什么什么机构的幕后操纵 - 反正阴谋论永远有市场。这个澳大利亚政客都缺乏逻辑到可笑,联合国伪造全球变暖的证据以便炮制国际政府?

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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Jun » 2016-09-02 7:17

CAVA wrote:唐朝诗人说:朱门酒肉臭,路有冻死骨。我们现在比唐朝有进步吗?
没啥进步。基本上人类就是这么回事。我有点想看看 Shiller 参与的这本经济学家百年预测书,里面所有的经济学家都不乐观,并没有人觉得会走向共产主义。
全球变暖这个公认的事实还有人否认。http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-37091391
这个小意思,在美国这种 climate change deniers 在国会里多得是,前任总统就是,如果 Trump 上台了,肯定也是跟他们统一口径的。

澳大利亚一向是很保守的,有时比美国更保守。1968年奥运会上两个美国黑人田径选手在发奖仪式上表达对种族主义的抗议,澳大利亚的白人银牌选手 Peter Norman 表达支持,回国之后被田径协会打压迫害。

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/20 ... mpics.html


Irrational Exuberance 这本书是九十年代末写的,Shiller 警告当时的股市太疯狂了,Internet 公司的股票的价格高到发神经了,没有底座支持要完 --- 以很平缓和气的教授讲课口气说,价格有点高喽,嗯,维持不了多久哦。结果这书刚出版,股市就崩了。Shiller 和 Karl Case 搞了个 Case-Shiller index,收集房地产价格的历史数据且用来追踪目前的数据。在2005年,Shiller 重版 IE 这本书,往里面加了一章分析房地产价格的内容,表示这也是泡沫成形中 ... 这次没那么巧,房地产泡沫要等到2006才开始爆裂 ...

我觉得这事体现这个人的个性,换了别人,肯定写本新书,Irrational Craze 什么的,专讲房市泡沫,这是他的专门课题啊。Shiller 大概觉得都是废话,重复讲没意思,就给旧书添一章而已,也不大肆宣传。对照一下 Nassim Taleb,就几句话的内容,颠来倒去地呱啦呱啦地啰嗦百多页纸,还换个名目又写一本新书。
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by simonsun » 2016-09-03 19:31

Knowing wrote:Say no more. Brian Cox was so frustrated by the stupid politician. he reminded me why I left the States in the first place.
傻是傻,主要还是钱和权。换个金主/选区,口气肯定不一样。
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Jun » 2016-09-06 7:43

simonsun wrote:傻是傻,主要还是钱和权。换个金主/选区,口气肯定不一样。
换一个选区,选出来的代表就肯定不是这样的人了。
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Jun » 2016-12-11 20:30

我不是跟了 Shiller 的推吗?主要是跟他自己写的和推荐的文章。
https://twitter.com/RobertJShiller

前阵子他在卫报上发了篇 editorial,基本上是四平八稳地从经济角度来讨论 Trump voters 的立场,这些都没什么特别新奇的角度哈。最后他来了句很典型的预测,我看了不知为什么觉得好好笑。

Why did US voters back Trump? Economic powerlessness
22 November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... erlessness
If those who lack the skills that today’s economy demands refuse redistribution, it is hard to see how Trump will make them better off. The Trump revolution, as it has been presented so far, seems highly unlikely to deliver what his supporters really want: an increase in workers’ economic power.
我忽然发现他的推上面的自我介绍是:
Economist at Yale University. Irrationally Exuberant.
好玩,他是说自己是个 "irrationally exuberant" 的人吗?看不出来哎 ... (开头我还以为他是给旧书打个广告,然而他的书名是 "Irrational Exuberance"。)

贴个视频,Shiller 接受采访,也是让我吃吃傻笑,采访者貌似不知道该怎么应付他。Let's not forget, he's married to a PSYCHOLOGIST. 他的经济学研究跟心理学有很大的关联,而且貌似他对于中国经济跟得还挺近的。

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTa ... id/763139/

然后我去他在耶鲁经济系的网站看了一眼,天啊他的最近一本书(跟别人合写的,去年出版的)是:

Phishing for Phools:
The Economics of Manipulation and Deception
George A. Akerlof & Robert J. Shiller

:worthy: :worthy: :lol: :lol:
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Knowing
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Knowing » 2016-12-12 8:24

他老是在访谈里吃吃笑是咋会事?

我读了那篇文章突然想,资本主义洗脑工人太成功了。上个世纪工人不满意了是组织工会对抗资本家,现在希望减税资本家把工作留在美国小镇。以前农民被夺了田地去城里出卖劳动还怨恨资本家,现在工人就像苦哈哈出卖劳动为生,煤矿工这么糟糕的工作,也恨中国抢走。这都什么事儿啊。
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Jun » 2016-12-12 8:36

我觉得是因为美国整个都已经疯了,主持人还在一本正经地问:您预测一下股市会不会一直涨,房市会不会一直涨?是不是因为市场的 fundamentals 仍然强劲?我看 Shiller 在死忍,阻止自己说出“这就跟我预测的前两次 crashes 一样,irrational exuberance!” 而且我把自己想看好戏的心情也投射到他身上,"Now he's gotta deliver."

以前美国工人不是这样的,共和党从尼克松开始给全国人民洗脑洗脑洗脑才造成现在的局面,也可以辩解说都是民主党 LBJ 跟 MLK 搞到一起,才会逼共和党搞长期大规模洗脑活动,总之,你去查查 Southern Strategy,Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes, Steve Bannon 这些人的发展进化史就知道了。说起来也是很简单的,在历史上,当贫富悬殊阶级斗争激化的时候,就用外部敌人与战争来转移注意力。纳粹德国开头也是先搞内部敌人,从共产党同性恋犹太人发展到进攻全欧洲。在美国有现成的内部矛盾可以转移阶级斗争:白人群众害怕了几辈子的黑人,以及帮他们爬到自己头上的白左们。在中国我就不解释了。没有宗教的大型国家社会就是难搞,统治阶级需要动用一切手段来维持自己的统治地位,不能仅仅拿出“天子”,“上帝任命我”这种话就驯服下面。

所以川普还真的需要跟中国闹,不闹怎么遮掩把美国搞穷了(不包括他自己)的结果?都怪中国人!
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by Jun » 2017-01-22 14:08

Robert Shiller 在卫报上登了一篇文章,我本来还以为是警告新一波 irrational exuberance,结果不是,直接称现在的股市指数为幻觉,巧合地呼应了跟 Sapiens 书里的理论 --- 不是一回事但是有小小重叠:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -dow-jones

The Trump effect has rallied US markets – but it's based on illusion
Robert Shiller
Thursday 19 January 2017 03.46 EST
Speculative markets have always been vulnerable to illusion. But seeing the folly in markets provides no clear advantage in forecasting outcomes, because changes in the force of the illusion are difficult to predict.

In the US, two illusions have been important recently in financial markets. One is the carefully nurtured perception that President-elect Donald Trump is a business genius who can apply his deal-making skills to make America great again.
If he ever reveals his financial information, or if his family is able to use his influence as president to improve its bottom line, he might even prove to be successful in business.
But these numbers are illusory. The US has a policy of overall inflation. The US Federal Reserve has set an inflation “objective” of 2% in terms of the personal consumption expenditure deflator. This means all prices should tend to go up by about 2% per year, or 22% per decade.

The Dow is up only 19% in real (inflation-adjusted) terms since 2000. A 19% increase in 17 years is underwhelming, and the national home price index that Case and I created is still 16% below its 2006 peak in real terms. But hardly anyone focuses on these inflation-corrected numbers.
下面这一句话特别有意思,我来回看了几遍才明白言下之意:
Unfortunately, though the 2% inflation target is largely a feelgood policy, people tend to draw too much inspiration from it.
越来越发觉 Shiller 写的文章里隐藏着微妙的 sarcasm,这不是我的幻觉!
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tiffany
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Re: [zz] Robert Shiller Predicts Doom (NYT)

Post by tiffany » 2017-01-22 15:24

所以基本上来讲,arrival 是一特乐观的电影,觉得三千年以后地球还能存在,还有一群人类能帮助外星人……
乡音无改鬓毛衰

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