女性低自信讨论重又风行

[Jun]

这个肯定是接着 Sheryl Sandberg 的书 "Lean In" 引发的后续讨论。最近两个女记者 Katty Kay and Claire Shipman 写了本书，基本上说女性在社会上工作中没爬到顶层，主要原因是女性缺乏自信。不想读此书的人可以在 The Atlantic 上看篇简述：

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/arc ... ap/359815/

文章有点长，不过比书短多了，而且 Atlantic 里面的 feature articles 总是很长的。

这种文章和观点总是能带来网上的吵架。我不觉得她们说得不对，她们描述的很多现象，已经达到了领导地位的女人仍然害怕自己不够好，尚未达到领导地位的女人怕失败而不争取，男人高估自己的能力而女人低估自己的能力，都是确实存在的。另一方面呢，看得出两位女作者本人就是自信不怎么高的典型 --- 她们自己也在访谈里承认这一点 --- 所以我对于她们能不能提出有效的改变措施也不太有信心。

再上一篇反对意见，The Guardian 上的专栏：

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... re-shipman

这文章的论点是女性的缺乏自信不是自找没趣而是对现实的准确拿捏，因为现实本身就是歧视女性的。不去批判社会机器的歧视性质却 blame the victim，居心何在。

总之，女性之普遍相对不如男性“成功”（eg，有钱，有权，被尊重，自我感觉良好，等等）这种现象，跟为什么世界上有穷人有暴力之类的话题一样，谁也不可能一句话全部涵盖解释完（社会学不是物理学）。很多因素可以是叠加的，而不必是 mutually exclusive，互相对骂其实没什么意思。

Kay and Shipman 在文章里提出一些比较有争议的 --- 姑且称之为假设吧，即男性与女性的自信程度的差别有生理的基础，仿佛男人天然地倾向于拔高自我形象而女性天然地不拔高。这种说法实在太缺乏科学数据了，即使是真的，眼下也不可能判断出来，所有的正反理论都属于“理论一毛钱一打”的范畴。而且，XX行为特征/倾向是天生的性别差异的套路，如果没有 cross-cultural 的审视就毫无价值，先去证明了北欧的女性也跟英美中女性一样自信程度低，我们再来谈什么生理因素再来排除后天因素吧，否则真没啥意思。

但是，至少在英美中的文化环境下，女性的缺乏自信是相当普遍的现象，这是不争的事实。

发散一下思维，however，我联想起一些相关的话题，不限于男女性别。有些人比较自信，有些人比较不自信，后者在女性里比较普遍但不等于男人里没有自信程度低的。实际上她们描述的男性自信特质看着更象美国男人的 stereotype，或者是美国文化宣扬的男性形象。换到中国这种 patriarchal 的社会和文化就不一定通用或者那么简单，在中国男人里有比美国男人更过分的自我膨胀，也有更象美国女人的自卑和虚弱。

自信，自尊，自我价值，自我形象，这些概念似乎有很紧密的内在关联，与之相关的机制还有冲突和竞争，尤其是面对面的竞争，以及被别人讨厌和憎恨的风险。很多人（女人比较多）被缠住脚步的因素之一是 "People won't like me if ..." 争取了就会有人讨厌你，而被人讨厌这件事似乎有不同的忍受程度。对于有些人来说，被人讨厌的痛苦超过了得不到更多金钱和地位的痛苦，所以避免是值得的。

继续发散思维到一个比较敏感的概念 --- aggression。

Kay 和 Shipman 提到的一些观察还是挺有意思的，我认为不该一味否定她们。例如她们说男人为什么普遍（相对）不怕失败不怕出丑而且失败了也不会自降价值呢？（有调查表明 men apply for promotions when they are 60% qualified, but women do so only when they are 100% qualified。）跟小时候玩闹方式和体育竞技有关，因为男孩子 play rough，在竞技体育中常常会遇到失败，在其中学会了不把失败出丑放在心上的习惯。我记得小时候看见哥哥跟朋友在一起时打打闹闹，互相 trading insults，觉得骇然，女孩子之间不会这么粗暴，处理冲突和矛盾的方式更加拐弯抹角。不管是先天还是后天，女孩子之间处理冲突与 aggression 的方式跟男孩子不同是相当常见的现象。

这一切都很难讲谁好谁坏，哪一种方式或倾向更加高级/更值得推广。例如 Kay & Shipman 指出一个 ruminate 倾向，说的是很多女人 --- 但我想很多男人也可以包括在内 --- 经常做完一件事或决定之后老是反思个不停，“我做得对不对？哪些地方做的不够好？会不会得罪人？有什么缺陷？下次如何更完美？” 没完没了，乃至将缺点和害怕无限扩大化。但是，很容易看出 rumination 的习惯也有它的好处，能让人接受教训，不断改进，不会继续犯同样的错误。

回到 aggression。男性是否天生的就比较更加 aggressive，或者有多少 aggression 是天生的，多少是文化熏陶熏出来的，这些都没有定论。对外的攻击性，在现在的社会环境里多半被冠冕堂皇地黑掉，但在实质上有不可抹杀的优势，但是在维持社会和谐稳定方面有其破坏性而被社会势力驯化。这么说太拗口了，简单地说就是儒家礼教或宗教规范和野蛮自私的人性之间的挣扎，同时，作为 social animals，合作和讨人喜欢/彼此喜欢，也有不可忽视的天然力量。

人人都希望别人比较无私，而扩大自己的利益，冲突与矛盾就是不可避免的，包括 external 和 internal 的冲突矛盾。过分 aggressive 会被社会不容，关进监狱；不够 aggressive，就等着被人欺负吧。（OK things are never so simple, but you get the idea. ）但是，here's the rub --- 女性也是自私的！也有 aggression！虽然我没有研究过也没有数据，但是我可以肯定。

攻击性是人类天性之一，跟社会性/合作性/与人为善的倾向是共同存在的，人就是这么麻烦，充满了对立而动态的平衡。但是，在和平时期，在“文明”社会里，尤其是人数日益密集竞争日益激烈的环境中，个人的攻击性是个相对棘手的问题。如果家里有十个娃，坐下来乖乖的当然比成天厮打强 --- 尤其是对于家长（ie，整体社会）来说。但同时会哭的娃有奶吃，攻击性强的个体有竞争优势，这是事实。历史上的中华帝国是一个内政管理系统十分成熟的社会，儒家哲学体系有效地通过大众洗脑而降低了平均攻击性。（side note：我有时想，知识分子是一个有意思的阶层，是一个 artificial selection 挑出来的人群，他们的特点是学习能力强，吸收外界信息的能力强，这个特点也表现在自我意识弱，容易被洗脑这方面。）

在争夺有限资源的过程中，一定程度的攻击性能帮助某些人占领更多的资源，这一点在大多数社会里是普遍的现象，包括中国（一方面跪拜“霸气”，一方面要求“善良”） --- 当然纯攻击性而没有其他素质的平衡是不行的 --- 即使是富二代富三代，也是攻击性强，资源占有者的基因延续。

所以，把话题拉回来，Kay 和 Shipman 意识到童年和青少年时期的竞技体育活动对自信的提升作用，但是她们无意识地将之归结为失败承受力和韧劲，我觉得真的很有意思。竞技体育最重要的作用是 simulate war，在战争泛滥的古代是训练预备儿童的战斗能力的方式，同时也是培养和整理天然攻击性的途径。社会对女性的洗脑真是太成功了，这么明显的事实放在她们鼻子底下，她们还是说不出口。

是的，所谓 "confidence" 就是争夺更多资源的欲望和动力，难怪现实是 confidence 比 competence 更有效呢。而 confidence 是适应社会规范的 aggression 的表达。被有效地洗脑压抑了的 aggression， 自然就缺乏 confidence 喽。就这样简单。

******
Look, it's damned hard to openly get behind aggression. If you and another kid are fighting over a toy or a piece of candy, you can either 1) increase your own level of aggression and fight for it, or 2) wait for the other kid to temper his/her aggression level and give/share it with you. If you choose 1), your chance of getting it is better, but you risk social ostracization. If you have internalized the social pressure to "be nice" and "be liked," you are more likely to choose 2). It's always a delicate balance.

[笑嘻嘻]

那纸老虎里讲的在北美的亚洲男性缺乏自信呢？

[Jun]

那纸老虎里讲的在北美的亚洲男性缺乏自信呢？

什么是纸老虎？

两个白女记者写的关于女性的书里不可能讨论亚裔男性的事情啦。

但是我看亚裔男性的软弱形象跟女性的软弱形象有点共通之处，就是鸡和蛋的互相推进，positive feedback loop，以及 self-fulfilling prophecy 的现象。社会赋予你一个形象，不管它是真的假的，你会不自觉地去内化和扮演这个角色，然后令赋予的形象更加广泛和坐实。社会给北美亚裔男和女性都有赋予低自信、人畜无害、无攻击性的角色分配，大家也不自觉地迎合扮演这个形象，没多久就从一个 artificial construct 变成了普遍的现实。

[笑嘻嘻]

纸老虎是虎妈之后，韩裔男性写的亚裔在大学毕业后所面对的职场瓶颈。大家总是默认亚裔吃苦耐劳，亚裔自己也选择苦活干，但是升职的时候却没份儿。
http://nymag.com/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/

[Jun]

Disclaimer: 多因素的现象总是有各种角度可以讨论，没有标准答案，也无所谓谁对谁错。

说起女性自裹脚丫子的现象，一个特常见的现象是不停追问："Do they like me?" 根据我的个人观察哈，越是在乎这个问题的人就活得越难受，越是不在乎这个问题的人就活得越开心，成功（whatever that means）的几率也相应增加。对 "like me" 问题的看重加上对他人思想感受的洞察力，这两条就是 recipe for anxiety and depression. 妥妥的。

[tiffany]

我彪悍又自恋的说，我一般都自问 do I like them？

[mirrorflower]

我彪悍又自恋的说，我一般都自问 do I like them？

人各有命没法子啊。

我多少年过去才进化到从，“do they like me?”，到" Do I care if they like me? "然后想一想会承认，no, not really.

[Knowing]

你们真龙！

[putaopi]

我最近在读的一本书叫做 Odd Girls Out, 是讲小女生之间的aggression. 作者提到女生关系的特点是利用友情，就是说前天还是最好的朋友，无话不说，转头就用你的秘密来攻击你嘲笑你。这跟Jun说的很多女性最在乎"Do others like me?" 是一致的，谁都不得罪才能保护自己的安全。

[Jun]

谁都不得罪才能保护自己的安全。

如果人人都这么想就没有人爬到顶层了，但是总有人爬到顶层，靠的绝不是不得罪任何人？是什么呢？我也不清楚.

Before we get too smug about being a peace-loving people who don't express aggression ever and never punch anyone in the face, I just want to point out that the social and "moral" rewards from being a peace-loving person still make one come out ahead of the jerk who gave you a black eye --- if only in your mind. Friends come and go, but competition is forever.

[putaopi]

哎我其实不觉得女性比男性本质上更热爱和平，只是进攻的方式不同。女性之间的aggression 也是杀人不见血的，这两年用Facebook,text message 逼着小姑娘自杀的案子有好几起。但是女性更倾向于对熟悉的人用狠，观察过不少在外面温柔恭顺的女子对家人的态度强硬得很。

好像跑题了，跟职场进取没什么关系。

[Jun]

哎我其实不觉得女性比男性本质上更热爱和平，只是进攻的方式不同。女性之间的aggression 也是杀人不见血的，这两年用Facebook,text message 逼着小姑娘自杀的案子有好几起。但是女性更倾向于对熟悉的人用狠，观察过不少在外面温柔恭顺的女子对家人的态度强硬得很。

好像跑题了，跟职场进取没什么关系。

很有意思。请继续。

我想可能是因为社会不想接受女性的 basic instincts，也可能是因为女性本身对于社会的标准/期待更敏感，执行更得力，服从得更彻底。但是既然是 basic instincts 就不可能彻底消灭，压抑了之后必然在别处以其他形式流量出来。

[Jun]

I think about all the emotional energy I have wasted all my life trying to convince everyone I'm harmless and likable, and I almost wish I were born a psychopath... Almost.

[putaopi]

Jun给的两篇文章我都读了，感触很多。男女生理上大脑结构肯定有区别，但是是不是导致自信心的差距的原因就难说啦。我的观察还是女孩子在成长的过程中受到的打击太多啦，跟身边小女生的父母聊天更证明了这点。手机太费劲，回头用电脑再展开谈。

[笑嘻嘻]

葡萄皮请继续。

[幻儿]

Lena Dunham,就是HBO电视剧《Girls》的创作者和女主角，最近搞了一个网站，promote女权主义：http://www.lennyletter.com/。
最新一期有J. Law一篇文章，讲她比男星的薪水少。我觉得值得分享。原来她不知道其他男星赚多少钱，sony hack之后才知道，同一部电影《American Hustle》，男星们加导演（Jeremy Renner, Christian Bale, Bradley Cooper, director David O. Russell) 拿back-end profits的9%，她和Amy Adams只拿7%。她说因为她太早放弃。

Why Do I Make Less Than My Male Co‑Stars?

By Jennifer Lawrence

J Law(Illustration Credit: Jennifer Williams)

When Lena first brought up the idea of Lenny to me, I was excited. Excited to speak to Lena, who I think is a genius, and excited to start thinking about what to complain about (that’s not what she pitched me, it’s just what I’m gonna do). When it comes to the subject of feminism, I’ve remained ever-so-slightly quiet. I don’t like joining conversations that feel like they’re “trending.” I’m even the asshole who didn’t do anything about the ice-bucket challenge — which was saving lives — because it started to feel more like a “trend” than a cause. I should have written a check, but I fucking forgot, okay? I’m not perfect. But with a lot of talk comes change, so I want to be honest and open and, fingers crossed, not piss anyone off.

It’s hard for me to speak about my experience as a working woman because I can safely say my problems aren’t exactly relatable. When the Sony hack happened and I found out how much less I was being paid than the lucky people with dicks, I didn’t get mad at Sony. I got mad at myself. I failed as a negotiator because I gave up early. I didn’t want to keep fighting over millions of dollars that, frankly, due to two franchises, I don’t need. (I told you it wasn’t relatable, don’t hate me).

But if I’m honest with myself, I would be lying if I didn’t say there was an element of wanting to be liked that influenced my decision to close the deal without a real fight. I didn’t want to seem “difficult” or “spoiled.” At the time, that seemed like a fine idea, until I saw the payroll on the Internet and realized every man I was working with definitely didn’t worry about being “difficult” or “spoiled.” This could be a young-person thing. It could be a personality thing. I’m sure it’s both. But this is an element of my personality that I’ve been working against for years, and based on the statistics, I don’t think I’m the only woman with this issue. Are we socially conditioned to behave this way? We’ve only been able to vote for what, 90 years? I’m seriously asking — my phone is on the counter and I’m on the couch, so a calculator is obviously out of the question. Could there still be a lingering habit of trying to express our opinions in a certain way that doesn’t “offend” or “scare” men?

A few weeks ago at work, I spoke my mind and gave my opinion in a clear and no-bullshit way; no aggression, just blunt. The man I was working with (actually, he was working for me) said, “Whoa! We’re all on the same team here!” As if I was yelling at him. I was so shocked because nothing that I said was personal, offensive, or, to be honest, wrong. All I hear and see all day are men speaking their opinions, and I give mine in the same exact manner, and you would have thought I had said something offensive.

I’m over trying to find the “adorable” way to state my opinion and still be likable! Fuck that. I don’t think I’ve ever worked for a man in charge who spent time contemplating what angle he should use to have his voice heard. It’s just heard. Jeremy Renner, Christian Bale, and Bradley Cooper all fought and succeeded in negotiating powerful deals for themselves. If anything, I’m sure they were commended for being fierce and tactical, while I was busy worrying about coming across as a brat and not getting my fair share. Again, this might have NOTHING to do with my vagina, but I wasn’t completely wrong when another leaked Sony email revealed a producer referring to a fellow lead actress in a negotiation as a “spoiled brat.” For some reason, I just can’t picture someone saying that about a man.

Jennifer Lawrence is an Academy Award–winning actress.

[Knowing]

I got mad at myself. I failed as a negotiator because I gave up early. I didn’t want to keep fighting over millions of dollars that, frankly, due to two franchises, I don’t need.

I can totally relate to that. I don't negotiate comfortably -- was neither taught nor encouraged to. Negotiation is not considered sign of confidence and self-respect. It is seen as greedy and unappreciative. Also there is the sense of :really? do I really need that extra xxx amount of money? Probably don't. and then it is hard to continue the unpleasant process. It takes me years to get over that enough to engage in a negotiation, and I will probably never able to be completely comfortable with it.

However, when I did negotiate, it did backfire in certain ways. I was no longer viewed as the nice and polite person and my bosses/HR (men and women) who I negotiated with felt uncomfortable around me for a good 6 months to a year before they acted normal around me again. I don't believe men would suffer the same backfire. There is a tangible price of 'not being likable' for women and I have to be realistic to weigh the pros and cons. It is between a rock and a hard place. So I am not mad at self for hesitation to negotiate.

[tiffany]

我觉得谈判这事儿也需要多练习。跟自吹自擂得诚恳而低调同理，漫天要价需要友善而特reasonable, not that I am good at it in practice though