1。
我一向举双手双脚赞成捐献遗体。
多年以前做近视眼手术的时候，在手术台上躺着，还跟医生贫呢。问大夫我这挨了刀的角膜，要是捐献，还有人愿意要么。这件事，一时在病房里被传为笑谈。
我平生头一次进墓地，是大学军训时。有一次拉练拉到小城郊外，大队人马涌上一个山头儿。放眼一看，好可怕，远远近近的一片山头，好好的植被全被剃秃了，换成白色的墓碑林立。有的墓占地极大，还围着雕云刻龙的栏杆，让人马上联想到“地主老财”之类的名目。
大学时，我有一个好朋友上“协和”，修人体解剖时是老师的得意门生。我曾经跟着她蹭进解剖室，无限崇敬地欣赏过一具骨骼------协和某位已故著名教授。我的远大目标就是，有朝一日，跻身某解剖实验室标本行列。
所谓身体发肤，受之父母，我娘作为老一辈无产阶级科学工作者，在这个问题上不但不会拉后腿。相反，她的榜样力量，也是我作出这种决定的一大原因。而她，是从她那医生爸爸那儿学来的勇气。
不想我娘她，居然，率先变节了。
2。
起因在几年前，她的一位老师病重。那位先生，是解放后“放弃美国优越待遇，排除重重困难回国报效”的第一代海归。到了晚年，他们那一拨儿人所剩无几，总算受到特殊照顾，对口医院定在政要们看病的某医院。
那个医院么，门槛高。寻常都是这“长”那“长”的。小护士连见了国家领导人也不带发怵的，何况没权没势的知识分子。这种懂点生物医学知识的患者和患者家属，动不动还要跟医生护士争论一下，出了名的难弄，净遭白眼儿了。我妈在那个医院有表亲、有忘年小友，都正好是年富力强的骨干，这样上下疏通打点了一下，总算是朝里有人好办事儿。
住院一阵，先生终于不治。先生生前有话，要捐献遗体，请医生解剖。于是追悼会很快就开了。可是会后，迟迟不见医院给检查报告。先生遗孀也是我妈的老师，好心肠儿地想，人家可能是很重视，慢慢做，慎重做。托我妈侧面打听打听，还不敢显示出有催人家的意思。
我妈去问那位忘年小友。这小友多年来是我妈激励我努力攀登科学高峰的众多榜样之一，聪明刻苦，热爱事业，心地纯良，待人真挚，等等等等。
小友一向跟我妈很亲的，犹豫再三说，大姐，这事儿吧，难办，到现在还没解剖呢。
我妈大骇，愿闻其详。
小友说，解剖吧，是病理科的范围。病理科，和一般治疗的科室呢，情况就不太一样，尤其是这种患者已经过世了，不用再治疗了，要是做出什么结果来了，可就比较棘手了。
这段话的意思呢，翻译成白话文就是说，如果人还活着，等着病理结果出来好继续治疗，那当然是麻溜儿地，赶紧做。而今人都不在了，做了结果出来，不能为医院产生效益了吧，相反的，兴许还会暴露出治疗中的问题，那就变成给同事下不来台，给医院捅娄子。所以呢，这种吃力不讨好的勾当，自然就没人抢着做了。
我那纯真的妈，自此对那个大医院产生了强烈的幻灭感。对那位小友的“成长”，也有点心里疙瘩。
先生的解剖报告，自此没了下文。过了些时候我外婆外公相继过世，我妈毫不犹豫地直接火化，根本没提捐献遗体的碴儿。
3。
这件事对我的触动不算太大。国内医生和一般学校研究所的知识分子相比，显然更加入世，也就是我妈那种一辈子在象牙塔里的人才会被激烈震荡。
我来美国以后，虽说没有主动去献过血，但是登记捐献器官之类的事情，碰到了不会拉下。
但是我的最后一根稻草终于在上周从天而降------CNN报道，美国殡仪馆和医疗公司、医院勾结起来合伙赚死人的钱。
具体手法是这样的。死者生前签署了捐献遗体的文件。那么好了，这些公司就和殡仪馆联系好了，葬礼一结束，马上把遗体运走。大卸八块那还是轻的，从组织到器官，能用的都不会浪费，完了以后骨骼还能制成标本。这些拆下来的人体零件，用于治疗和教学，当然不是免费的了。举了个例子，说某一具遗体的零件，用在了26个患者身上。而整具遗体，可以牟利数十万美金之巨。
而死者和家属呢，一分钱也没见，他们本来以为是为医学事业做出了贡献，结果是人为刀俎我为鱼肉，变成了资本家的免费午餐。
我看这新闻时，正在吃晚饭。一边看一边嘀咕，那我死了以后到底该怎么办。
我家先生怒，吃饭呢吃饭呢哎！
这当然不是一个愉快的话题。希望我还有足够长的时间左思右想，改变主意。或者，得自己联系好哪个解剖实验室做标本的人。
[闲聊]身后事（有令人不快的细节请慎入）
[闲聊]身后事（有令人不快的细节请慎入）
Last edited by silkworm on 2005-12-20 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
这个我不能完全同意，你捐是捐了，不要钱，医生把你的器官割下来，给别人开刀缝进去，还要麻醉，还要病床护理，还要给各种各样的辅助药物，哪一样不花钱的？不能都无私奉献啊。理论上来说，你过去之后，器官反正也没用了，要么回归尘土，要么给别人用，随便你自己选择。
为什么捐赠的人或家属不能拿钱？这不是一句两句话能说清的事。不是不让你出卖自己的器官，象其他医院殡仪馆一样赚钱，但是自愿出卖器官的事情太过复杂，太容易被abuse，太危险，目前情况下非得靠无偿捐献的系统不可。而中间医院的买卖过程毕竟比较容易被市场机制控制而被abuse的机会和诱惑没有那么大。器官移植是个不寻常的市场，需求极大而供应极少，里面又牵扯到人命和器官，ethics and religion，很多很多的因素。什么是公平的，合理的，什么是exploitation and abuse， 不同的人会有极大的看法差别。
为什么捐赠的人或家属不能拿钱？这不是一句两句话能说清的事。不是不让你出卖自己的器官，象其他医院殡仪馆一样赚钱，但是自愿出卖器官的事情太过复杂，太容易被abuse，太危险，目前情况下非得靠无偿捐献的系统不可。而中间医院的买卖过程毕竟比较容易被市场机制控制而被abuse的机会和诱惑没有那么大。器官移植是个不寻常的市场，需求极大而供应极少，里面又牵扯到人命和器官，ethics and religion，很多很多的因素。什么是公平的，合理的，什么是exploitation and abuse， 不同的人会有极大的看法差别。
Last edited by Jun on 2005-12-21 8:12, edited 1 time in total.
What is it that bothers you the most? That hospitals and co. make money off of your organs and tissues or that your tissues and organs may not go to saving someone's life?
I ask because this is a very person-specific question. Everyone has very different irks. And I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind about donating your tissue and organs. I think this is one of the most personal decisions and MUST be made based on what a person is comfortable with.
Law and Order: CI had an episode about organ donation. The point was that this donor insists on giving his organs to "worthy" people. Unworthy people should not receive his organs.
Like I said, organ donation is fraught with ethical problems and ambiguitys and abuse potential. The way things are at this moment because this is the most acceptable patchwork system we can come up with at the moment. It's not the best, but certainly it could be much much much worse.
The hope is once the stem cell bank is systematically available to all newborns (hence the umbilical cord blood collection and storage) and the stem cell technology matures, the need for organ donation will diminish.
I ask because this is a very person-specific question. Everyone has very different irks. And I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind about donating your tissue and organs. I think this is one of the most personal decisions and MUST be made based on what a person is comfortable with.
Law and Order: CI had an episode about organ donation. The point was that this donor insists on giving his organs to "worthy" people. Unworthy people should not receive his organs.
Like I said, organ donation is fraught with ethical problems and ambiguitys and abuse potential. The way things are at this moment because this is the most acceptable patchwork system we can come up with at the moment. It's not the best, but certainly it could be much much much worse.
The hope is once the stem cell bank is systematically available to all newborns (hence the umbilical cord blood collection and storage) and the stem cell technology matures, the need for organ donation will diminish.
That's true for most medical procedures. This is how medical care works in this country.捐献来的器官，被标上价格，连同手术费用，全都打在医疗保险里了，最后转嫁给所有人。
That's pretty much how car insurance and other insurance systems work too.
What about federal income tax? I give 30% of my hard-earned money (not so hard this week
) to the government so that they send young men to kill and be killed in another country and tap people's telephone without a court order.It's not so straight forward. I don't know the details about the organ distribution system, but there is a national registry and anyone who needs an organ gets to be put on the list. The distribution of donated organs depends on a number of factors, including the severity of the disease and urgency of the transplantation, the geographical location, the blood type and immunological match (HLA antigen etc.). In the United States, poor people have a fair chance of getting organs because the system is rather responsible and conscientious. Often people who are waiting for an organ and are desolate, they have Medicaid coverage which will pay for the hospitalization and follow-up immunosuppressant drugs.想要器官的人们，有人肯出材料费才能得到，没钱的得不到，那我比较pissed off
-
helenClaire
- Posts: 3159
- Joined: 2003-11-22 20:12
This organ donation thing really is not that easy and simple as anyone first thought.
I have chosen to be a donor, but if my family says no when time comes up, that'll end it. On the same note, If I ever need to face a decision on organ donation, it will be about my loved one. Whatever I decide, I will have to live with that decision for the rest of my life.
So the issue is not a dead body that couldn't care less. It's a living person making a difficult decision on behalf of a passed family member. People cherish anything that their loved ones had used, toys, clothes, etc. It's only natural that they care what will happen to the body. A dead body may not feel any pain, but his surviving family does.
I have heard worse, that donor's families need to pay for removal of the organs. If money and profit is involved in the process, how do I know that organs are handled properly? How can I be sure that people won't put organs for other uses should more profitable opportunities come up? The process is anynomous, how can I be sure that some patients really benefit from my PAYING to have my loved one cut up? Are there more dirty secrets that I don't know of? These worries and concerns are very real, and legitimate too.
I have chosen to be a donor, but if my family says no when time comes up, that'll end it. On the same note, If I ever need to face a decision on organ donation, it will be about my loved one. Whatever I decide, I will have to live with that decision for the rest of my life.
So the issue is not a dead body that couldn't care less. It's a living person making a difficult decision on behalf of a passed family member. People cherish anything that their loved ones had used, toys, clothes, etc. It's only natural that they care what will happen to the body. A dead body may not feel any pain, but his surviving family does.
I have heard worse, that donor's families need to pay for removal of the organs. If money and profit is involved in the process, how do I know that organs are handled properly? How can I be sure that people won't put organs for other uses should more profitable opportunities come up? The process is anynomous, how can I be sure that some patients really benefit from my PAYING to have my loved one cut up? Are there more dirty secrets that I don't know of? These worries and concerns are very real, and legitimate too.
刚刚看到的，原来再有名的人死了还是拿自己没辙 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4552742.stm
在广州的话，可以直接和医学院人体解剖教研室联系，这样应该可以减少中间环节产生的不快和不便。
http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%B9%E3%D6 ... user=baidu
您好！
我儿子得了障碍性贫血病，我到处求医都没好转。我想捐出儿子的遗体给医院和国家研究。请问本医院可收留。求求你们了！！
134715842861382413865913680576249 罗先生 2005-7-3 21:35:06 已回答
医生回答：首先向您致以崇高的敬意！但我们医院不接受遗体捐献。目前广州市志愿捐献遗体登记接受站暂设三处，分别如下，您可就近联系：
中山大学中山医学院志愿捐献遗体登记接受站
地址：广州市中山二路74号中山医学院人体解剖教研室
电话：8733071287330651
暨南大学医学院志愿捐献遗体登记接受站
地址：广州石牌暨南大学医学院人事科、人体解剖教研室
电话：85220248
南方医科大学志愿捐献遗体登记接受站
地址：广州市白云区京溪街南方医科大学人体解剖教研室
电话：61648199
http://www.h527.com/user_add/News/2005819151817.shtml
遗体捐赠少人问津十个医科学生解剖一具尸体
除了器官移植，供体缺乏同样对医学教育事业带来了严重的困扰。据中山大学人体解剖教研室主任徐杰介绍，长期以来，人体标本严重缺乏一直是众多医学院校颇感头痛的问题。
2001年，广州三个志愿捐献遗体接受站正式启动。以接受志愿捐赠遗体最多的中山大学医学院志愿捐献遗体登记站为例，4年来，平均每年只能收到8具自愿捐椎囊盘濉Ｈ欢
http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%B9%E3%D6 ... user=baidu
您好！
我儿子得了障碍性贫血病，我到处求医都没好转。我想捐出儿子的遗体给医院和国家研究。请问本医院可收留。求求你们了！！
134715842861382413865913680576249 罗先生 2005-7-3 21:35:06 已回答
医生回答：首先向您致以崇高的敬意！但我们医院不接受遗体捐献。目前广州市志愿捐献遗体登记接受站暂设三处，分别如下，您可就近联系：
中山大学中山医学院志愿捐献遗体登记接受站
地址：广州市中山二路74号中山医学院人体解剖教研室
电话：8733071287330651
暨南大学医学院志愿捐献遗体登记接受站
地址：广州石牌暨南大学医学院人事科、人体解剖教研室
电话：85220248
南方医科大学志愿捐献遗体登记接受站
地址：广州市白云区京溪街南方医科大学人体解剖教研室
电话：61648199
http://www.h527.com/user_add/News/2005819151817.shtml
遗体捐赠少人问津十个医科学生解剖一具尸体
除了器官移植，供体缺乏同样对医学教育事业带来了严重的困扰。据中山大学人体解剖教研室主任徐杰介绍，长期以来，人体标本严重缺乏一直是众多医学院校颇感头痛的问题。
2001年，广州三个志愿捐献遗体接受站正式启动。以接受志愿捐赠遗体最多的中山大学医学院志愿捐献遗体登记站为例，4年来，平均每年只能收到8具自愿捐椎囊盘濉Ｈ欢
On one note, if it's his wish to use the body this way, it's perhaps the best to just give the consent, respecting his wish, and not to ask what exactly would happen next.helenClaire wrote: So the issue is not a dead body that couldn't care less. It's a living person making a difficult decision on behalf of a passed family member. People cherish anything that their loved ones had used, toys, clothes, etc. It's only natural that they care what will happen to the body. A dead body may not feel any pain, but his surviving family does.
On the other hand, if there is any hope of fixing the loopholes in the current system (supposedly plenty), it must rely on such concerns of the loving families. It's a burden not everyone would and could carry. But arguably there is high correlation between an organ donor and a highly responsible family. That's perhaps why organ donation has to be voluntary.