人类的孩子(<Children Of Men>)

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Knowing
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人类的孩子(<Children Of Men>)

Post by Knowing » 2007-01-12 22:15

十八年前人类莫名奇妙的都失去了生殖能力,科学家完全无法解释。除了英国等几个国家还勉强维持接近崩溃的社会秩序,世界已经一团糟。失去孩子的人类失去了未来,失去未来的人类失去了希望。大家在世界末日是怎么反应的呢?克莱夫欧文演个前愤青,现在没精打采的在政府机关混日子,怀里随时揣着白兰地。他表哥是个博物馆收藏文物委员会的头,忙着到世界各地抢救艺术品,还精致的生活着,吃饭三道菜配红酒,一丝不苟。欧文问他:你怎么还有力气忙这些?一百年后就没人看了。他回答:我就是不去想它。这样能凭坚强意志自己屏蔽自己的人毕竟是少数。另一类代表是欧文的朋友,Michael Caine 演的老嬉皮,躲到树林里隐居,自产自销大麻,彻底消极的逍遥度日。积极派是欧文的前妻,朱丽安摩尔演的另一个愤青,现在是某地下反抗组织的头。他们到底是反抗什么,为什么要起义,我也没怎么想明白。他们大致是嫌现在的政府不好,高压,强制遣返移民。可能社会已经一团糟,民主政府也没法靠选举民主改变了。
就在这时候,一个海地非法移民,一个黑女子,怀孕了。她的怀孕同样缺乏解释,只能视为奇迹。那时候大家也不避孕了,所以她也不知道谁是爹。乘朱丽安摩尔之托,欧文要把她送到安全而神秘的科学组织人类计划手上,这段旅程当然十分艰险。。。
前半部电影,我一直等着揭开为什么人类突然失去生育的谜团。到后半部看着导演根本没往那边走,我又萌生了新希望:标题里的孩子不是复数么?一定是不能生育的问题解决了,从这个孩子开始,一堆堆的孩子出生了!结果还是没发生。我很受伤害,明白过来了,不是科幻片,是个寓言片。影片并不关心没有孩子的前提是怎么发生的,也不关心拯救之后的地球是什么样子--它所要讲述的,是在这个恐慌失望之下人的群体心理反映。其实人类在我们死后灭绝,对我们的生活有什么实际影响么?难道作为一个个体,就不能按时上班,锻炼身体,尊老爱幼,好好生活到最后一刻?平心而论,我自己的确办不到。用JUN 的话说:“我们的人类社会里面,所有天经地义的秩序,价值观,道德系统,痴男怨女,无穷无尽的战争,全是The Selfish Gene在做怪。如果把最根本的传宗接代这一条拿出等式之外,谁还有活下去的意义? ”这种对人类延续的期望有其奇怪而巨大的力量,出乎本能,并非理性。抛开大画面不讲,里面的种种细节,都有实际的讽刺意义,让观众会心而刺心。比如在社会动荡,犯罪频繁时,政府大力将矛头指向无辜的非法移民以安抚人心。又比如自以为正义的反抗组织为挟天子以令诸侯,不惜以孕妇和婴儿的生命冒险...
顺便说一下影片的娱乐性和意义吧,既然今天在讨论这个。作为一个观众的看,娱乐性强的影片,我可以对意义放松一点,事后忘的快也就算了。同样,有意思的电影,我不介意耐心容忍节奏慢,故事展开的迟缓些,因为走出剧院的时候,会有比较长的回味。<人类的孩子>,作为一部政治惊怵片,让我这个即不喜欢政治片,又不喜欢惊怵片的观众时时吊在坐位边缘,时时感到情节推车撞壁山穷水尽,又出其不意峰回路转,不能不说是成功之作。沉重的题材不一定得拍的乏味,这就是范例。
啊,我撒谎了,只要看着克莱夫欧文的脸,没有女性观众会感到乏味......... :love019:
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tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2007-01-12 22:33

嗯,他的眼睛会笑,弥补他其余地方的不足----比如说6块腹肌2块胸肌56的。

这个电影儿我是决不会去电影院看的,太郁闷了,看trailer就看得我胸闷。
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Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2007-01-12 22:53

I don't think he has ever taken shirt off in front of the camera. He doesn't need to, I am convinced he is perfectly fit.
I struggled a long time if I should see it. Just couldn't resist Clive Owen and Michael Caine in the same movie.
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passby
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Post by passby » 2007-01-13 0:11

欧文因为演了这个,被Lancome看中了,成了它家男士新品的代言了。lancome还说:纯因演技好,哈哈。

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2007-01-13 19:23

Man, this post is cursed. I've tried to write something about the movie twice and both times I lost it. Now I have very little desire to repeat my effort.

Just briefly to address Knowing's confusion. Yeah the movie's screenplay seems to have some serious problems and holes. The original novel by PD James is apparently very very different. It's called The Children of Men, not Man (ie, mankind) because it is the sperms that have lost all viability and thus cause infertility. The Fishes in the novel are antigovernment but not immigrant-rights fighters like in the movie. I don't plan to read it though. Am no fan of PD James. She's definitely not my cup of tea, especially her mysteries.
纯因演技好
Yeah right. The first time I saw him on the TV series Second Sight, I just KNEW he was the "Next Big Thing." The series were silly, but his look was stunning.

I can't shake the suspicion that the movie's plot is so centered around immigrant deportation because the writer/director Cuaron is Mexican and particularly concerned about US-Mexican immigration problems.

The direction is fantastic, which masked the many big holes in the script. The script was probably ruined by having too many cooks (5 writers were listed on the credit). The cinematography is wonderful. The much-praised 7-minute uncut action sequence (can you spot it?) is breath-taking. Technically it's a fine movie.

Half way into the movie, the friend who went with me got up and left with annoyance with me: Why do you drag me to see such depressing stuff? There's enough depressing things already. But being a hardend, jaded a**hole that I am, I was not at all disturbed and finished it alone without being particularly disturbed. Man, I've been watching too many movies. The ending, oh what a disappointment. This is the 3rd movie I've seen in a month that is ruined by a ridiculously cliched and predictable ending: Blood Diamond, A Perfect World, and this. Why oh Why? It's not like the moviemakers did not have enough good ideas to move along well enough until the stupid lazy ending. Can't we have something original to sum up the otherwise quite thoughtful and well done movies? The moviemakers can't seem to resist the usual urge for easy sentimentality and cheap heroism.

passby
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Post by passby » 2007-01-13 23:10

看来被闷到的不止我一个。
我去看的时候也当成《终结者》这样的科幻片了,看到一半意识到这原来是blade-runner-type的,要挖掘深度的体材,我就默念,至少保持blade runner那点娱乐性吧,千万别煽太多。后面果然有个大煽特煽的地方,就是欧文抱着小孩出来,大伙都愣住了,btw, 这之前有个长镜头比较怪的,挺晃人,把我看昏了,当中有点点血水溅到镜头上,没被抹去,跟着镜头一起晃,后来不知道什么时候又消失了。anyway,煽到这个时候,是最高潮,导演的意图应该是想把这几十年人类没有子孙后代的希望造成全人类自暴自弃,一片混乱的现状,同这个突如奇来的希望唤起人类良知的情形作个对比,然后从心灵上打跨观众,不幸偶是没被打垮的一个,所以不喜欢这个片子,跟我同看的就被打垮了,就喜欢得不得了。
结尾我觉得到还好,可能是因为想到,“啊,终于可以结束了。”

欧文是演舞台剧出身的,closer的舞台剧版就是他演的,这基本上是对演技的一个保证:Meryl streep啦,Cate Blanchett啦,都是演技sunning的舞台剧起家影人。偶就是不大相信欧文如果长得跟达斯丁霍夫曼那样,lancome还会“纯因演技好”找他~ :whistling:

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Post by simonsun » 2007-01-13 23:59

dustin hoffman挺帅的啊,graduate里面不还是母女通吃咯……meet the fockers里面也超正点的嘛 :twisted:

CoM到影院里看,看技术,也挺值的。看到抱着小孩下楼,大家停火那个镜头,之前好多细节,都好像有biblical reference的嫌疑了。

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Post by Jun » 2007-01-14 9:41

I liked it and was not bored at all -- well, I'm a woman aren't I?

Yes, the blood in the technically superb 7-minute uncut sequence. I was also wondering how they removed it without cutting to another shot. I heard on an interview with Cuaron in which he said the blood splatter was unintentional. He was going to reshoot because of it, but the cinematographer said, no this is perfect. True, it adds a touch of grit and urgency to the sequence.

I'm surprised that no critic has picked up the "illegal immigrant" angle in the theme, which is clearly the filmmakers' own take. Perhaps it's because the movie is set in Britain. All of the Apocalyptic elements are really what's going on in the world -- Iraq, Beirut, Abu Ghraib, London and Madrid. This is not some disintegrating dystopia in someone's imagination. It's here and now. Note Babel (by another Mexican director) also has a plot element related to the immigration problem between US and Mexico.

The climax involving the baby recalls the climax in "Perfume", a little ludicrious but I know what their intention is. Both could have used a little bit more thought in the script.

I don't want to leave the impression that I didn't like the movie. It has its problems but overall it's well made and passionate, and relevant without being preachy. It's just that I've been watching too many movies lately. I'm tired and saturated.

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Post by tiffany » 2007-01-14 19:57

我自从看了阿西莫夫的基地系列和给系列的后人续书之后,深刻的认识到科幻小说好看与否根作者的思路/时代太有关系了。
科幻小说基本上,我觉得,是思想家的小说。这些思想家们对于现状有所不满甚至没有不满而只是进行哲学思考,乃设想在遥远的将来,假如没有这样那样的局限,世界将会如何。基本上来讲是写书者的块垒/理想世界。
但是我是个很现实的人,曾经的口头禅是:既然已经这样了,那就这样吧;相当的没有追求和接受现实。所以对“如果。。。。会怎样?”这类问题缺乏兴趣。年纪大了以后对哲学思想越发没有兴趣,所以我不是科幻fan,所以我不会去看人类的孩子,尽管克里夫欧文同学实在是内外双修的美啊。
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passby
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Post by passby » 2007-01-15 4:16

Jun wrote:I liked it and was not bored at all -- well, I'm a woman aren't I?
是俺误会了
就没人不喜欢这片的么~ :verysad:

norine
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Post by norine » 2007-01-15 8:14

克莱夫欧文的脸也许是这部电影唯一的优点。

谁说没人不喜欢?我就不喜欢!既不逻辑,又不娱乐。要评谁能把一个刺激性强,吸引人的主题发挥得这么沉闷,我投这部电影一票!

tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2007-01-15 9:23

不敢请问,楼上两位都多大岁数?
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norine
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Post by norine » 2007-01-15 9:29

tiffany wrote:不敢请问,楼上两位都多大岁数?
36, 怎么?问得我心惊肉跳的。。。

tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2007-01-15 9:42

没啥。看一句话有若干个惊叹号,还以为是十几岁的小朋友。
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Post by helenClaire » 2007-01-15 11:42

明白过来了,不是科幻片,是个寓言片。影片并不关心没有孩子的前提是怎么发生的,也不关心拯救之后的地球是什么样子--它所要讲述的,是在这个恐慌失望之下人的群体心理反映。
这让我想起来,用不着想象和寓言,”世界末日到来“应该在历史上多次发生过。比如中世纪黑死病流行的时候。<<十日谈>>开篇几十页就是描述当时佛罗伦萨的景象,据说是翔实准确的报导。人群任何时候对任何事情的反应都是多种多样的,极端情况下越发极端不同。人性里那点自由意志和叛逆精神的存在,让提供天堂、得救和永生的教会在集体恐惧的情况下,也没能收缴所有的灵魂。

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2007-01-15 12:07

simonsun wrote:dustin hoffman挺帅的啊,graduate里面不还是母女通吃咯……meet the fockers里面也超正点的嘛 :twisted:

CoM到影院里看,看技术,也挺值的。看到抱着小孩下楼,大家停火那个镜头,之前好多细节,都好像有biblical reference的嫌疑了。
Lancome should totally hire Dustin Hoffman. In Perfume he was wearing quite a lot of makeup. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Yeah I think the biblical reference in Children of Men are on purpose. Too bad I did not get 2% of them because I am so ignorant of Bible.
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Post by Jun » 2007-01-15 12:40

Based on my nominal knowledge of the Bible, I did not spot a lot of biblical references in the movie. In fact Kee joked about herself being a virgin as sort of a counterpoint for the Bible. Nope, can't think of any clear and direct reference to theological basics.
人性里那点自由意志和叛逆精神的存在,让提供天堂、得救和永生的教会在集体恐惧的情况下,也没能收缴所有的灵魂。
Crazy, isn't it? There are people who don't want the eternal life. Must be out of their mind.

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Post by vivi » 2007-01-15 13:09

Am I the only one here who doesn’t find Clive Owen particularly attractive?
又没头脑又不高兴

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Post by dropby » 2007-01-15 14:12

I don't feel him particularly attractive either. But I do agree he is a very good actor.

我第一天就跑去看了. 我是科幻扇子, 这种电影非看不可的. 看完以后挺失望的. 这个剧本漏洞太多了, 太没有逻辑. 电影拍得是挺好的. 我后来看一个评论说, 如果落到一个差导演手上, 多半又是另一部克隆岛, 真是一针见血的评论.

这个电影最好的地方就在于对世界末日的演绎比至今为止任何电影都拍得更加有说服力, 当然, 也更加压抑.

我不能说不喜欢这个电影, 也不能说喜欢. 我就是觉得挺遗憾的. 要是剧本好一点的话......

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Post by vivi » 2007-01-15 16:24

He is a good actor alright. I give him that. I have problem with the way he talks. He sounds like he is constantly spitting.
I’ve read the review in the New Yorker, and there are 2 points quite interesting.

1. The fact that an infant baby redeemed the world was especially Christian.
2. (Talking about Michael Caine’s role) The hippies have been right all along.

:lol:
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Post by Knowing » 2007-01-15 17:27

:mrgreen: Clive Owen is so.....manly ...in a uncool, unsophisticated, bluecollar way. I find that kind of hot. Alright, maybe it is just me :party003: :party003: :party003:

Michael Caine is too lovable. That is one role he really deserves.
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Post by putaopi » 2007-01-15 18:19

vivi wrote:He is a good actor alright. I give him that. I have problem with the way he talks. He sounds like he is constantly spitting.
I’ve read the review in the New Yorker, and there are 2 points quite interesting.

1. The fact that an infant baby redeemed the world was especially Christian.
2. (Talking about Michael Caine’s role) The hippies have been right all along.

:lol:
Yeah, an infant boy, and the mother's mysterious pregnancy...that's very christian.

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Post by vivi » 2007-01-15 18:27

Now I have to confess. ‘Blue collar’ doesn’t work for me. I am a fan for the ‘intellectual’ type (although it doesn’t have to be as sleek looking as Mr. Cooper :laughting015: ). My cup of tea is the slightly introvert, slightly shy, maybe even slightly devious type of men like Edward Norton. It is ok if he doesn’t have much muscle. He’d better not be fat!.
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Post by Knowing » 2007-01-15 18:52

AC is NOT intellectual. He is just gay.
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Post by vivi » 2007-01-15 19:00

Ok, I mean 'intellectual' looking or at least AC doesn't look 'blue collar'. I don't mind 'skin deep'. I am just that superficial. :vomit:

By the way, is it confirmed that AC is gay?
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Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2007-01-15 19:10

Come on! AC lives in Chelsea and has been spotted a few times neighbourhood(a.k.a gay) restaurants with a male friend. Also, a guy I met a few times said one of his ex-bfs dated AC before AC made it big. Well, NYC is only this big and all gay male between 20-50 are probably within 2 degrees of seperation.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Post by vivi » 2007-01-15 19:51

Now I remember you mentioned it before. Well, fine, he can still be the eye candy then. I don’t mind men like Dr. House either. I like weirdos. Sorry for turning this movie review into a beauty pageant post. :p
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Post by passby » 2007-01-15 20:49

tiffany wrote:没啥。看一句话有若干个惊叹号,还以为是十几岁的小朋友。
偶可一个惊叹号也没用!!!

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Post by passby » 2007-01-15 20:53

Knowing wrote: Michael Caine is too lovable. That is one role he really deserves.
quills里他给偶得印象太深,总觉得他像赵忠祥,长着道貌岸然的两个大眼袋~~ :lol:

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Post by norine » 2007-01-16 1:03

vivi wrote: My cup of tea is the slightly introvert, slightly shy, maybe even slightly devious type of men like Edward Norton.
I thought that was MY cup of tea! (拼命忍住,只用一个惊叹号):-) but Edward Norton is certainly not my type of men :-) although he's a good actor.

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Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2007-01-16 4:38

别激动, 别激动. 平静点儿.
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2007-01-16 8:07

1. The fact that an infant baby redeemed the world was especially Christian.
The idea may be considered by Anthony Lane as especially Christian, but to me it seems simply ... biological. Far from the usual Missiah routine (from The Terminator to The Matrix), this premise that the only pregnancy in the whole world offers hope for humanity appeals to the very most fundamental essence in everyone. It is the most basic fear and hope of the species.
Yeah, an infant boy, and the mother's mysterious pregnancy...that's very christian.
Funny, isn't it? The baby is assumed to be male both in the movie (by the rebel leader) and by the audience. It is a GIRL! I think that's an intentional element. The mother is no virgin, which is a point that is also emphasized in the movie.

The original novel may be full of Biblical references, but I don't think the movie has kept much of it.

It seems to me that the much mentioned Christian subtext in this particular movie is more in the viewer's head than actually in the movie. I'm not against using Christian subtext (I like both The Terminator and The Matrix), but let's call a spade a spade.

I have to complain about Anthony Lane as a reviewer. He has neither Ken Turan's knowledge and deep thought nor Roger Ebert's earnest humanity, and lacks even Stephen Hunter's flamboyant style. He's dull, pointless, thick, and shallow. And worse, his blandness is dressed up in the prerequisit pretentious of The New Yorker. His review of Volver is so OFF.

文质彬彬的知性男人不是亚洲女性的一致推崇么? :mrgreen: 我没觉得Clive Owen是"蓝领气质",再说他也不那么肌肉,从来也没拿肌肉当卖点。他是那种让人过目不忘的脸,有screen presence,主要是intense。我不喜欢Ed Norton,Ethan Hawk,觉得他们是那种软塌塌的形象,自我感觉又特好,老让我疑心在文明的外表下藏着什么变态的东西。我见过Norton接受采访,口才很烂说话特粘糊,但是很有点"我是名校高材生"的优越感,烦他。

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2007-01-16 8:39

I assumed the childlessness was caused by some factor that affected women and a baby girl might be able to carry some fresh quality that could resist the factor. Remember the diaster started with woman having miscarriages and eventually no pregnancy at all? Somehow I felt it was the egg not the sperm that were affected (by enviornmental pollution, etc)
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CAVA
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Post by CAVA » 2007-01-16 9:14

每看Clive Owen就惋惜他没去演007,他多合适啊。看了电影后觉得Daniel Craig还算有魅力,但没什么英国气质里轻描淡写,冷静的那种酷。

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Post by vivi » 2007-01-16 9:52

Maybe not that Christian. At least this baby is black :p
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花差花差小将军
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Post by 花差花差小将军 » 2007-01-16 9:52

CAVA wrote:每看Clive Owen就惋惜他没去演007,他多合适啊。看了电影后觉得Daniel Craig还算有魅力,但没什么英国气质里轻描淡写,冷静的那种酷。
Yeah, I know. Craig looks like a club bouncer (next to Owen). He lacks grace and ease.
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Post by tautou » 2007-01-16 12:21

花差花差小将军 wrote:
CAVA wrote:每看Clive Owen就惋惜他没去演007,他多合适啊。看了电影后觉得Daniel Craig还算有魅力,但没什么英国气质里轻描淡写,冷静的那种酷。
Yeah, I know. Craig looks like a club bouncer (next to Owen). He lacks grace and ease.
我上周才后知后觉地看了《皇家赌场》,动作场景真好看啊真好看,可007一跑起来,我立刻就给他脑门凿上“运动健将”四个大字 :mrgreen:

CAVA
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Post by CAVA » 2007-01-16 15:27

说起男演员,新闻里播了金球奖仪式的片段,Hugh Grant looks an absolute mess,相反Hugh Laurie蛮精神的,没比Blackadder那时候见老多少。

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