好消息和坏消息

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tiffany
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好消息和坏消息

Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 13:14

我有好消息和坏消息报道:
坏消息:据说羊肉里面发现了prion,就是那个可以导致疯牛病的蛋白质。此蛋白在神经组织如脑和脊髓里面含量最高,但是肉里面乃是首次发现。
好消息:1,就是但是科学家们说这种羊病人不会得。我对此说很有些怀疑。2,乃是此种蛋白在肌肉里面含量很少。3,此种羊病似乎84疯牛病。
总结:羊肉,吃还是不吃,很是一个问题。
Last edited by tiffany on 2004-05-26 14:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by 洛洛 » 2004-05-26 13:26

肯定还是要吃的。这不吃那不吃,我也真没有活着的乐趣了。
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Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2004-05-26 13:53

真受不了!我刚买了羊肉。

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Post by 豪情 » 2004-05-26 13:55

可怜的穆斯林, 尤其是阿拉伯人. 我想起来一个伊朗人给我讲他们那儿传统上鸭子是帝皇的食物.
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tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 14:03

对,阿拉伯那边儿缺水,鸭子少。
嗬嗬,昨天看新闻还说虾场养出来的虾恐怕给喂过抗生素,建议广大人民群众买虾的时候看清楚是否亚州出产-----不知道为哈,我觉得这个乃是继越南猫鱼贸易战之后的保护美国渔民的政策。
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Post by Jun » 2004-05-26 14:07

别说羊了, 现在说人身上带prion的比原先估计的更加普遍, 大家就等着定时炸弹发作都变傻了吧.
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Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2004-05-26 14:08

完了,这下连吃人都没戏了。

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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 14:11

哎,我记得当年安非他命的副作用还没发现的时候,大家们拿来当咖啡一样的用,结果有个英国首相就做出了很多疯狂举动。后来发现是吃药吃出来的。
8过话又说回来,活的时间够长,大家都会变傻,it is only a matter of time.
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tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 14:12

小笑得品味比较的奇突。
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Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2004-05-26 14:14

8过话又说回来,活的时间够长,大家都会变傻,it is only a matter of time.
为什么?
确切地讲,我应该说:完了,这下连人都没得吃了。

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Post by dropby » 2004-05-26 14:17

笑嘻嘻 wrote:
8过话又说回来,活的时间够长,大家都会变傻,it is only a matter of time.
为什么?
确切地讲,我应该说:完了,这下连人都没得吃了。
我被小笑吓晕. 你已经吃过多少了? :lol:

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Post by 豪情 » 2004-05-26 14:18

我非常政治不正确地说他们的先知光叫他们不吃猪肉了, 怎么没有预见到牛羊的问题.
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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 14:21

嗯,到了一定的岁数,身体的所有机能下降,包括脑子。
当然6,7,80岁还矍铄挺常见,再往上就难说了。
唉,具体的细节就算了。
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Post by Jun » 2004-05-26 14:25

I have to disagree with Dr. White here (even though I've never slided anyone's brain like she has). It is not a given that everyone's brain degenerates substantially with aging. Look at Arthur Clarke and Ray Bradbury, sharper than you and I in their 70s and 80s and will probably die as sharp as they are now.

As for the mad cow disease, or new variant Creutzfeld Jacob disease in humans, the infected individual actually doesn't get to grow too old to become ill. It generally takes about 15-20 years for the disease to manifest itself. So if one is infected at 20 years old, he could be dead by 40.
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tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 14:37

真的,那我又看到了希望,我是说变老。不过有时候我又觉得有些人倒霉,脑子先支持不住时间的考验,先于身子进入8能使用的状态。
哎,我看报道说这种羊病叫做:scarpie,还是scrapie,据说人8得。
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Post by Jun » 2004-05-26 14:45

Scrapie is an old disease, generally considered the origin of all the prion disease we see now. First, the brain of scrapie-infected sheep were fed to cows as a protein source, which infected cows. From scrapie prion, cows got bovine spongiform encephalopathy (ie, mad cow dz). Just exactly how the prion jumped species, we don't really know. Then, cows with BSE were fed to humans, who then caught nvCJD. The recent news was that a lot of people may be carrying around the prion without knowing it.
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Post by 豪情 » 2004-05-26 14:52

真长见识.
JUN, 这最新消息的依据是什么呢? 是潜伏期比原以为的长, 病例增多还是发现的传染渠道增多?

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Post by Jun » 2004-05-26 15:06

This is turning into a medical horror novel or something. See the link below:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/05/2 ... .cjd.reut/
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Post by CAVA » 2004-05-26 15:12

现在的新发现真真日新月异,跟都跟不过来。我是打定主意随便伊去,爱吃的照吃。
恶人谷的居民声称‘人都没得吃’好象挺自然的。:lol:

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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-26 15:13

其实我马上联想到的是不吃人头李大嘴
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Post by pomo » 2004-05-26 21:16

tiffany wrote:哎,我记得当年安非他命的副作用还没发现的时候,大家们拿来当咖啡一样的用,结果有个英国首相就做出了很多疯狂举动。后来发现是吃药吃出来的。
我想起来前几天看电视,说美国流行一种药物叫“狂喜”,可以让人HIGH,却暂时没发现什么恶果,政府很是烦恼,故意危言耸听……
要是真有这类药物,848造福于民的,至少不会有人因PSDT(俺不知拼得对不)啥的郁闷了

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Post by Knowing » 2004-05-26 21:31

pomo wrote:
tiffany wrote:哎,我记得当年安非他命的副作用还没发现的时候,大家们拿来当咖啡一样的用,结果有个英国首相就做出了很多疯狂举动。后来发现是吃药吃出来的。
我想起来前几天看电视,说美国流行一种药物叫“狂喜”,可以让人HIGH,却暂时没发现什么恶果,政府很是烦恼,故意危言耸听……
要是真有这类药物,848造福于民的,至少不会有人因PSDT(俺不知拼得对不)啥的郁闷了
那就是摇头丸。医学上还没能证明它有什么坏处,造成死亡的多数是不纯或者服用者脱水。倒是已经发现它会导致脑部损伤, 但是问题是,它留下痕迹的那块脑子还没发现有什么作用--就是说,它在你不知干吗的一块脑子里留下些不知道什么。所以吃的照吃,不吃的照不吃。
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Post by pomo » 2004-05-26 21:55

哈,KNOWING深入浅出,我一下子就明白了。
那天我看了1个小时的片子,也不知道这个“狂喜”就是大名鼎鼎家喻户晓的摇头丸,也没明白到底是有害没害有啥害。我还颇崇洋媚外感慨说,怎么美国的毒品都比我们的安全啊……

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Post by 洛洛 » 2004-05-27 7:13

我99%的大脑部分都没用。 :oops:

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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-27 10:43

哎,好像我有天听说那个试验结果----就是能在脑子里留下块儿痕迹的结果,没人能重复出来,最后作者把该文章给收回了,并且埋怨药剂公司把安非他明(?)还是哈别个药,给错标成狂喜了。迄今还没人能证明此类药物有哈具体的害处。
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Post by Knowing » 2004-05-27 10:55

那也玄,这样的化学合成物,保不齐有哈长期副作用,到七老八十的时候突然发作了,叫人求生不能求死不的的。香烟致癌不是也无数年才证明。还是纯天然传统派的绿色麻醉品大麻妥当。
不知道香烟和大麻那个危害大。
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Post by 洛洛 » 2004-05-27 10:59

KNOWING你这话说得像堕落女青年。
大麻在北美,好像要在温室里种才行。有后院的人可能会偷种一两棵。
我看WITHOUT A TRACE电视剧,癌症女病人就在自己后院种,分赠给病友止痛。
Last edited by 洛洛 on 2004-05-27 11:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Knowing » 2004-05-27 11:01

我是纯洁的,烟酒不沾。--医生叫我吃抗生素,九个月不准喝酒。
你看过那个“saving grace" 的电影儿么?英国中年妇女爱好园艺,在后院种大麻。
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Post by Jun » 2004-05-27 11:02

Cigarettes are more harmful -- I think. I'm almost sure about it.
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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-27 11:13

我私下里觉得香烟危害大,尼古丁啦,焦油啦,等等的8良于身体的物质大大的。再说了,听说过chain smoke香烟的,谁听说过chain smoke大麻的?
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Post by 豪情 » 2004-05-27 11:30

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T INHALE.
Last edited by 豪情 on 2004-05-27 11:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Knowing » 2004-05-27 11:33

好像大麻的成瘾性没尼古丁高。而且抽大麻抽“高”了不能进行日常生活,抽烟可以抽的很凶,虽然招人讨厌,头脑是正常的。所以没有人chain smoke 大麻。
--我也胡说的,千万别听的。
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Post by 豪情 » 2004-05-27 12:07

鸦片也是天然绿色食品吧, 大多还ORGANIC种出来的.
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Post by Jun » 2004-05-27 12:37

尼古丁的成瘾力仅次与古可碱. 吸烟害死人的能力超过大麻 (肺癌, 口腔癌, 咽喉癌, 膀胱癌, 心脏病, 中风, 等等等等). 大麻的问题是上瘾后不少人不思上进, 干什么都没精打采, 对社会没贡献.
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Post by dropby » 2004-05-27 12:40

我回国在婆婆的后园里惊艳于罂粟来着. 据说家家都种, 用来吃火锅的.

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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-27 12:42

我一看见人人不思上进,马上就想到2个4个字儿:世界和平,天下太平。
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Post by 洛洛 » 2004-05-27 12:44

问题是我不吸大麻也完全的不思上进,干什么都没精打采,对社会毫无贡献 :oops:

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Post by dropby » 2004-05-27 12:52

tiffany wrote:我一看见人人不思上进,马上就想到2个4个字儿:世界和平,天下太平。
我正好不知道该投谁的票, 既然如此, 投大麻党一票得了. 我是很拥护世界和平的. :lol:

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Post by Jun » 2004-05-27 14:53

我一看见人人不思上进,马上就想到2个4个字儿:世界和平,天下太平。
Right on, dude. Is Dr. White intimately familiar with the hippie culture of the 60s and 70s? :lol:

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Post by Knowing » 2004-05-27 15:26

Damn, obviously GWBush was too busy drinking and did not smoke enough pot in his 20s and 30s.
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Post by tiffany » 2004-05-27 15:32

he did not inhale, remember?
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Post by 狸狸 » 2004-05-27 20:26

干什么都没精打采
我也是啊,我在想是不是因为不认识大麻把大麻当青菜吃了所以才这么没精打采呢
我们这里也传说若干馆子都放罂粟壳的,而且确实比较香 :oops:
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Post by pomo » 2004-05-28 9:16

能不能有哪位科普一下,大麻、可卡因、海洛英、鸦片、上文所提的古柯碱,都有啥关系啊?我一直认为前四者之间是浓度和纯度上的区别来着。

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Post by Jun » 2004-05-28 12:36

非也非也, 它们不是一种东西, 有效成分也完全不同.

大麻marijuana跟烟草类似, 也是一种植物, 叶子晒干了用来抽的.

古柯碱cocaine是从南美的一种植物里提炼出来的, 经过化学加工成白色晶体(所以叫白粉). 一般是用鼻吸, 从鼻腔粘膜吸收, 或者静脉注射.

吗啡morphine和海洛因heroine都是从鸦片中提纯的物质, 后者比前者纯度更高, 效果也就更强烈. 鸦片大家都知道了, 是从罂粟籽中提炼出来的胶状物质. 鸦片是加热后吸的, 吗啡要注射, 海洛因可注射可加热后鼻吸.

摇头丸/ecstacy我不太清楚, 好象是人工合成的.

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Post by 洛洛 » 2004-05-28 13:28

我看有些小说就直接说COKE,开始我真以为就是可乐呢。
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Post by Jun » 2004-05-28 13:33

When Coka-Cola was invented, it did contain cocaine in the formula. At that time, cocaine was considered of medicinal value and dispensed to patients. Sigmund Freud was hooked on cocaine when his doctor friends recommended it. He later kicked the habit.
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Post by prion » 2004-06-12 20:34

关于羊和疯牛病的渊源是这样的:最初是羊发病,叫羊搔痒症(scrapie),然后通过骨粉饲料传给了牛。病原都是prion,但是由于有species barrier,羊prion只能感染牛,不会直接传给吃羊的人类。
牛传给人几乎是板上钉钉的事,几年前PNAS上有文章,用疯牛脑喂lemur(一种小猴),它们果然发病。
大部分人类得这病是自发的,到底有多少是吃肉吃出来的很难说。
结论:羊肉还是可以吃的。

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Post by tiffany » 2004-06-13 13:04

这个乃是本周的最好的一个消息.
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Post by Knowing » 2004-06-14 7:58

Prion , 再给科普一下,为什么羊和牛有species barrier , 牛和人就没有?从羊和牛有,牛和人没有,能推出羊和人没有么?还是科学家直接就证明了羊和人有species barrier?
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Post by Jun » 2004-06-14 8:43

I'm not prion, but I'll jump in anyway to offer a bit of what I know. Exactly how prion causes disease and how it jumps species and which species it jumps to and from are all questions not answered by science so far. There is a strong suspicion that the infectious process is determined by both parties -- the infectious agent (prion) and the host (sheep, cow, or primates). One needs to remember that prion does not behave exactly like viruses or bacteria (well, it's a little more like virus than bacteria), and the mechanisms are still very much a mystery. Therefore we cannot always expect prion to behave in similar ways as virus or bacteria.

The phonemenon of species-jumping has been seen in virus too. Simian immunodeficiency virus, for example, has existed for a long time before jumping to humans as HIV. Same with avian flu. Sometimes, a virus may be perfectly barred from a species (eg, primates) for thousands of years, but suddenly a strain acquires a mutation that allows it to jump to humans. To make it more complicated, it is possible that the transmission requires a certain genetic makeup in the host, ie, you might be susceptible to the infection but I am not because your brain protein is slightly different from mine.
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