Watercooler chats

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Jun
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Watercooler chats

Post by Jun » 2008-06-05 11:06

前天是Democratic primaries 最后一站,完了就完了。Obama 宣布他的delegates 已经超过了需要的票数,获得民主党总统选举提名。

昨天上班灌咖啡时,pantry 那里正好是早晨rush hour,几个人在咖啡机前面排队,耳朵刮到后面两个人的聊天,戴了副时髦黑框眼镜的三十几岁的白人女编辑和五十几岁的黑人老大爷。女编辑满面春风地说,我认为他不应该收留她做VP,她包袱太多了,很不合适;老大爷说,外面有很多关于Jim Webb的谣言,Webb是中间路线,而且又有军人背景。。。我的咖啡做好了,后面的话就没听到。(Jim Webb 曾经当面叫GWB去F-off,在本地左派里很受欢迎。)

然后中午下楼买饭时,一起等电梯的有两个同事,都是女的。老的那一位,花白头发,问另一位比较年轻(也是三十几岁)的金发女说:你昨晚谁了几个钟头?金发女满面笑容地说:三四个钟头吧,太兴奋了,抱着电视不放。花白女略带善意的讥讽的口气说:十一点的新闻报道跟两点的报道能有什么不同?金发女兴奋地说:我把他的演讲听了好几遍,太好了,太振奋了。我们进了电梯后,花白女愤愤地说:我都腻透了,巴不得永远不要听他们三人的名字!我看她一眼,啪地给她贴一张 "Hillary supporter" 的标签。金发女还沉浸在幸福之中,"啊,啊,从现在到十一月。。。"

以下略去被我自动过滤掉几十句赞美的话,因为那时候我正在幻想中用小K 和自己代替她俩,小K 是风华正茂衣着时髦的金发美女,我是shabby过气的小老太。
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CAVA
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Post by CAVA » 2008-06-05 11:14

虽然美国大选跟我没什么直接关系,听你们说了这么久,忽然之间热闹就完了,有点曲终人散的虚无感。

偶尔听BO说话,觉得激昂而空,也许过了选举后会好些?我这也是小老太阵营的。

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-05 11:18

我为了照顾你们的感情一直按捺着没说什么。你居然先血口喷人说我是金发女郎!为啥我就不是女知识分子?
你们看见米雪和他上台后拥抱一下,含笑轻击一拳的镜头了么?这真是现代男女关系最美满的化身,相爱,平等,合作,战友。我看的十分陶醉 :love019: :love019: :love019:
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豪情
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Post by 豪情 » 2008-06-05 11:19

这是那**眼里出**.

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-05 11:24

xiao K is the beautiful, elegant, intellectual, fashionable, and young woman. I feel old and creaky. :cry:
Last edited by Jun on 2008-06-05 11:28, edited 1 time in total.
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笑嘻嘻
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Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2008-06-05 11:26

豪情 wrote:这是那**眼里出**.
没错!
云浆未饮结成冰

火星狗
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-05 11:27

在撒盐呢,真狠!

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-05 11:34

I understand why you girls are bitter, take your time to recover. :f59:

There are many important role HRC can play. Ted Kennedy lost in 1980 primary but he went on to be the best senator one can be. I hope HRC will do the same. It is time to prove she is a worker, a fighter, and nothing takes her down, including a failed presidential bit. :f59: :f59: :f59: :f59:

兴奋地说:我把他的演讲听了好几遍,太好了,太振奋了。
Hey, guilty as charged, that is me. :love019: :love019: :love019: :love019:
Last edited by Knowing on 2008-06-05 11:38, edited 1 time in total.
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豪情
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Post by 豪情 » 2008-06-05 11:37

Ted Kennedy lost in 1980 primary but he went on to be the best senator one can be.
:wink:

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-05 11:41

忽然之间热闹就完了
才开始呢!我简直等不及要看Obama/Mccain Debate! :monkey001: :monkey001: :monkey001:

Look, Jun, it is about time you face the reality and come to my side. :mrgreen: I am sure you will love him once you get to know him better....like...if you read his book...so well written...
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bootchange
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Post by bootchange » 2008-06-05 11:45

I hope HRC will do the same. It is time to prove she is a worker, a fighter, and nothing takes her down, including a failed presidential bit.
看到这个,还真让我开始同期希拉里了。

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-05 11:48

Em, the town-hall debates. I hope they will be unmoderated free style hand-to-hand combat.
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-05 12:03

Look, Jun, it is about time you face the reality and come to my side. I am sure you will love him once you get to know him better....like...if you read his book...so well written...
你的读书报告呢?现在我当然跟你是on the same side了,连Hillary 都放出话来了。爱上就不必了。
Last edited by Jun on 2008-06-05 12:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Elysees
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Post by Elysees » 2008-06-05 12:07

我为了照顾你们的感情一直按捺着没说什么。
我这两天还在奇怪你怎么一直没有发表兴奋的宣言,原来如此啊。 :-o
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Post by dropby » 2008-06-05 12:57

CAVA wrote:偶尔听BO说话,觉得激昂而空,也许过了选举后会好些?我这也是小老太阵营的。
我也这么觉得。我觉得他太像明星了。不过我当然希望他能打败Mccain。美国以感冒,加拿大就打喷嚏,没法象CAVA那么超然。

karen
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Post by karen » 2008-06-05 16:23

Knowing wrote:我为了照顾你们的感情一直按捺着没说什么。
xiaoK is so sweet! :-D
Anyway, when it is Obama vs. McCain, Obama is totally going to win. American voters always vote for the younger and better looking candidate. It's the story of American dream. McCain is simply too old.
Image

wuliaotou
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Post by wuliaotou » 2008-06-05 17:48

我办公室里倒没有一个喜欢O的,或者认为他根本没经验,或者认为他很"Mean"。一个同事说,或者H就做他副手,说不定他犯什么错误被杯葛,就H当总统啦。

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Post by Jun » 2008-06-05 19:38

I'm not bitter. I'm disappointed. Not just disappointed by her officially losing the primary, but how poorly she and her team conducted the campaign in the past couple of weeks. Too many mistakes. (And don't even get me started on Bill.)
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Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-05 21:35

she did run her campaign badly. billy just added to that. but he contributed a lot too, so give him a break.

It is funny now I actually believe they are a real loving, devoted couple. He campaigned his heart out for her, was incredibly supportive, and sometimes, his out-of-control behaviour was actual evidence he deeply believed in her. Not that he would stop sleeping around, but they bond on so much deeper level than physical intimacy or fidelity. The family is so loyal and devoted to each other, the three of them, amazing. Honestly, who could blame him for snapping on those reporters chasing him around all day trying to get some negative remarks!
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-05 22:04

But isn't he supposed to be a savvy, calculating, experienced politician who knows when to keep his mouth shut?

The Vanity Fair expose on his murky financial dealings has not helped either. And what was the deal with the constant leaks of "Bill wants her to be the VP", "Bill wants her to keep going", "Bill is talking to Obama camp." Why did we all hear about the leaks that signaled panic and confusion and a whole bunch of different chefs?  

I find it frustrating that a lot of silly things were said. They can't seem to do any business behind the scenes. I wish the whole Clinton camp had kept their cool, but they just didn't. Obama won for simply not losing. His people are at least able to keep their mouths shut. :evil:
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-05 22:04

but they bond on so much deeper level than physical intimacy or fidelity
我觉得我完全可以理解这种关系。一部份人把fidelity看得那么重要,是因为没法达到deeper level吧。我知道这有点反社会……

这有点像看足球自己热爱的球队提前出局,我会以较低的热情继续关注下去的。

以前是谁说过Bill是带电的不完美无瑕的政治家?好像就是Jun同学……

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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-05 22:56

find it frustrating that a lot of silly things were said. They can't seem to do any business behind the scenes. I wish the whole Clinton camp had kept their cool, but they just didn't. Obama won for simply not losing. His people are at least able to keep their mouths shut
True. they f__ked up. But, please, Obama has been running a great campaign. He raised far more money, much better organized (otherwise he could not have won the caucus), and went from 20 points behind to winning. I would say HRC's campaign was a bit overly arrogant first becuase they took it for granted they would win, and then they panicked and made mistakes. They were also angry and upset.
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-06 6:38

小K 表生气,Obama's campaign was run impeccably , knock on wood. Hillary's campaign was ... incompetent and messed up in comparison.

我猜想很多问题其实是 Mark Penn 从一开头就搞砸了。当然,Hillary 知人用人的能力也因此受到怀疑。

Bill 前几天和这几天的表现,就好象一个在女儿相亲时过分pushy 忍不住要越zu代bao的妈,满世界瞎嚷嚷,要房要车要财礼。虽然是出于爱,但还不都把人家吓跑了?给人感觉就是"娶老婆非得搭买丈母娘"。做女儿的知道妈妈是一片爱心,也不方便管制处理她,又不能把家人fire掉。总之乱得不得了。
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silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2008-06-06 8:43

看来看去,小K是孤军奋战么?我羞答答地站在小K的身后吧。 :frog:

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-06 9:33

据说昨晚两人密会了一个钟头,CNN 的记者象狗仔队一样丧尽尊严半夜三更围在克林顿家外面想拍张照片,结果更本就不靠谱,等错了时间等错了地点。 :mrgreen:
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森林的火焰
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Post by 森林的火焰 » 2008-06-06 9:45

这还叫“象狗仔队一样”,根本就是狗仔队嘛。
http://harps.yculblog.com
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-06 11:02

CNN news
“I received them. Put them in the living room in two comfortable chairs facing one another and left,” Feinstein said Friday morning.

“They talked. I went upstairs and did my work," Feinstein continued. "They called me when it was over. I came down and said ‘good night everybody, I hope you had a good meeting.’ They were laughing and that was it.”
这帮人应该去写best seller小说儿。
没拍到奸情照片他们一定很失望。 :mrgreen:

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-06 11:29

My respect has returned for Mrs. Clinton. :super:
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-06 14:12

他俩到底讲了啥,我真是挠心挠肺的想知道,超过了我对大部分编剧下的最精彩的扣子的好奇心。

Obama帅哥还是相当tough的,我对他的respect上升了点,love? 没门。

Jun的respect从哪方面回来了?我对她没丢过respect,所以没法和你有同理心。 :mrgreen:

silkworm
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Post by silkworm » 2008-06-06 14:19

我昨天听见一耳朵,说BO要找Caroline Kennedy做副总统。

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-06 14:22

不可能。你听到的是他找了三个人组成挑竞选伙伴的委员会,Caroline Kennedy也在这个委员会上。
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Post by silkworm » 2008-06-06 14:26

嗯,是帮着找,不是找她。估计是很多人的愿望。
哈,还有Joe Biden帮忙找呢。这个大白牙,之前使劲帮John Kerry呢。他好象一直搞外交的,听过他谈中东外交,还挺有见地的。

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-06 14:34

Jun的respect从哪方面回来了?我对她没丢过respect,所以没法和你有同理心。
Uh... Do you really want me to list all the screw-ups during her campagin? 我列出来你可别后悔啊。

Obama's campaign is not flawless, but much more tightly run and kept together.

I'm listening to the book "The Tipping Point" at the moment, and the chapters about personal influence are fascinating. People are not consciously aware of their emotional processes. I admit, I am as irrational in my affection and sympathy for Hillary Clinton as xiao K's admiration for Obama.

In terms of long-range outlooks though, I will remain a cynic with a black heart until I'm proven wrong.
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-06 14:41

我列出来你可别后悔啊。
我对她的感情有很多非理性的成分,比全理性的更不容易被challenge到。 :mrgreen:

我对Obama的admiration和对吃人老虎的admiration差不多,完全是理性的。我想我短期内也不会倒到敌人阵营里面去。

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-10 17:54

你们看见米雪和他上台后拥抱一下,含笑轻击一拳的镜头了么?
Just saw a piece of news about this "fist bump". Predictably, FoxNews host called it a "terrorist jab."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelca ... _jab_.html

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806100001?f=h_top
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Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-10 19:58

She has got nice legs!
Don't you just love this creative new low FoxNews manages to go? :mrgreen:
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Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-10 21:28

最近我正在严肃地考虑投票给 McCain 的可能性。这个烂摊子连神仙来都没法收拾,为什么要 Democrats 来收拾?不如干脆留给 Republicans 自己去搞得更破烂更彻底破罐子破摔拉倒。

基本上,我认为目前美国的处境已经被人为地搞到了不可救药的地步,历史上空前的恶性状态。未来几年,如果能避免战争和破产就是万幸了,更大的可能性是掉进去还不知道什么时候能爬出来呢。

这两天以色列已经放出风来攻打伊朗已经不可避免,又已经把核武器和美国政府捏在手里,一旦有武力冲突发生,这就是Rev. Hagee 他们一群人梦寐以求的Armageddon 来临。即使暂时不会打起来,已经极度恶化的中东状况几年之内也好不起来。尤其是伊拉克,现在美国政府买通两边不互相残杀,等现在的当权派一下去,美军和雇佣军一开始撤,马上变成大规模内战。那时候伊朗叙利亚和沙特等方面都不免被卷进去,美国也逃不了干系。即使不演变成世界大战,至少油价是别想掉下来了,大家的经济谁能不受影响。经济一坏,社会和政治状况必然产生动荡。

想来想去,其实美国手中已经一张牌也没有,山穷水尽了。而且想撇清也来不及了。现在是拼了老命拿人民的血汗钱砸进去勉强维持颤颤巍巍的和平假象,风一吹就倒。It's a house of cards. 而且因为这些砸进去的“明日钱”,基本上美国经济和美元的价值也保证在短期未来留在阴沟里。

现在的伊拉克不是当年的越南,越南没有能源和军事的重要性,撤了就撤了,对国内没有直接的影响。伊拉克的现状是左右不是人,撤也好不撤也好,长远来看都没好下场。

不如干脆交给McCain,让他发动第三次世界大战,打个痛快。
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Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-10 22:48

这是什么想法啊!破罐摔完了过四年,过八年,大家还真的就去死?再破的罐子还是要检起来接着吃饭喝水。罐子越破越难收拾。从超级大国降级到高级大国有那么可怕么。你看人英国也不是过下来了。

美国的牌多了去了。科技,金融,农业,制造业,家底厚实,政策搞对了经济完全可以拧过来。


总之,不许投McCain的票,你真的想让更多的保守派进高级法院????
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putaopi
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Post by putaopi » 2008-06-10 23:06

Jun, 你得这么想,小O上去了把战争结束,过几年之后咱Hilary再上台带领大家正经过日子。McCain这种要把仗打下去的人,无论如何也不能选啊。

simonsun
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Post by simonsun » 2008-06-10 23:20

我是政治盲。请大家解释一下,保守派这么胡搞,对自己有好处吗? :oops:
Violent delights.

CAVA
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Post by CAVA » 2008-06-11 1:35

现在这种你中有我,我中有你的格局,哪国的经济乱了都影响到其它国家,美国尤其不能破罐子破摔。别说世界大战了,真的来个depression,都等着过苦日子吧。

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-11 7:19

小O上去了把战争结束
就是"把战争结束"这几个字我觉得很难--不,是不可能实现。怎样结束?为什么伊拉克到现在都稳定不下来?一方面是当地人的Suni, Shiite之间的仇恨被美国入侵给点燃,你打我我打你,杀得眼红谁也不能停手---现在在去劝和,晚了!另一方面是各自背后都有人撑腰,东风压倒西风,伊朗和沙特之间的争夺。巴勒斯坦闹了这么多年,你以为真的仅仅是以色列和当地人民的矛盾么?其实这种手法一点不希奇的,借刀杀人,第五纵队,挑拨离间,扶植傀儡,自古有之,谁让群众这么容易煽动呢?

以色列起到很重要的作用,因为它有核武器,被周边阿拉伯国家视为眼中钉。其实西方大国力挺它,从一开头就是在阿拉伯地区中心安插一个制约势力的目的---其它因素,例如二战中对犹太人的屠杀,是天时地利的推动因素而已,你因为欧美列强真心爱上犹太人了?跟现在的fundamental Evangelical 领袖的意图没有本质差别。Hagee他们一群人(包括一些Bush核心圈子里的宗教人士)跟犹太Zionists打得火热,好得穿一条裤子,并不是因为他们真的视对方为亲人,而是互相利用达到共同目的而已。目前以色列国内政治状态十分不稳,人民对执政党非常不满,"非得干点什么"的压力越来越大。同时伊朗的日子也不好过,人民一样情绪不满,经济也不好。有什么比打仗更能转移人民注意力和不满情绪的?

美国即使想平抚中东局势,也几乎没有什么余地。犹太Zionists跟美国政治高层(目前掌握在Evangelical extremists手中)之间,指不定是谁wag谁呢。他们本来就在引导促成入侵伊拉克过程中起到关键作用,如果下一任总统打算跟伊朗叙利亚谈判,采取怀柔而不是大棒政策,这些势力会答应么?他们的幕后力量可比什么DNC强多了。同时伊朗和以色列为什么要听你的?Just for your boyish charm?

很多人认为伊拉克会演变成下一个内战时期的黎巴嫩。美国一撤就形成权力真空,真空一出现就是混战。跟当年一战之前的巴尔干半岛十分类似。现在的半休战状态是美国用(纳税人的)钱砸出来的,Bush 只需要继续砸半年他就洗手了事,下一个管事的里外不是人。
你真的想让更多的保守派进高级法院????
If I ever need an abortion, I could always go to Canada or Mexico, or China. :preston_collar:
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Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-11 7:51

你觉的iraq 光是本地人自己互相打?他们是在打美国人啊。美国人一走, 内战未必持续得了多久。打疲了,弱肉强食完了就停了。

恩,想了想,我的确不需要流产和同性结婚的权利,就象我不需要便宜汽油和制造业工作回本土。我也不用当兵。哗,好放心。
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Post by Jun » 2008-06-11 8:05

美国人一走, 内战未必持续得了多久。打疲了,弱肉强食完了就停了。
You wish. I wish. The likelihood? Low.
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-11 8:09

我是政治盲。请大家解释一下,保守派这么胡搞,对自己有好处吗?
就是出于cover its shit的纯洁目的吧。

Jun你这有点像“这么慢慢的折磨我可受不了给我个痛快的吧”。这不好,坚持就是胜利,癞皮狗似的活到八十岁也是八十岁。如果Mccaine真上台了再哼哼也不迟,如果真要打仗了我们就先去世界各地旅游一圈?这样真那啥啥了也不会太吃亏。

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Post by 森林的火焰 » 2008-06-11 10:03

两伊战争打了八年,打得你死我活,血肉横飞全拿常规武器在拼。打到最后,两国人口里男性的平均年龄都低于三十了,就不打了。
雄性荷尔蒙要燃烧,烧完了就不烧了。
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Post by 火星狗 » 2008-06-11 10:33

打到最后,两国人口里男性的平均年龄都低于三十了,就不打了。
It used to end this way, not this time...

So this war will never end? cannot bear the thoughts of losing some short-term money and profit? What a short-sight capitalism!

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Post by Jun » 2008-06-11 11:31

两伊战争里头倒不完全是常规武器,除非生化武器也算常规武器。(我就不用解释萨达姆使用的生化和常规武器是谁给的了吧?)雄性荷尔蒙憋的倒是真的,也许每人给发个PlayStation或者Wii 打打战争游戏能起到替代作用。
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Post by 森林的火焰 » 2008-06-11 11:44

我上军事课的时候,上课的那个军官很自豪地说:两伊战争双方的常规武器很大一部分都是跟中国买的,因为美国的太贵,中国的便宜又经用。
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Post by Knowing » 2008-06-11 11:59

Jun wrote:雄性荷尔蒙憋的倒是真的,也许每人给发个PlayStation或者Wii 打打战争游戏能起到替代作用。
对,也许他们蛋糕吃饱了就不想吃面包了。
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